Elizabeth Norris Abt1862 Frome

[jennyrob]

 

Looking Elizabeth A Norris born Frome Somerset 1861/2- father not found yet.There are two showing up on censuses One from Frome abt1861 with parents William and Paulina and one born Nunney and living in the Workhouse in Frome with brothers James and William
Only certain record of her is on the 1901 census in Wales
She marries or never married Thomas Samuel Smith or Samuel Thomas , a ships Steward Merchant Navy perhaps born Liverpool. Marriage maybe in Bristol about 1894/8
 Ethelreda birth cert says father is Samuel Thomas  a ships Steward Merchant Service

1901 census Roath Cardiff Wales RG13/4974/206/30
11 Harold St. Roath.
Elizabeth A Smith 39 mar. born Frome Somerset
Bessy Smith 3 born Bristol
Ethelreda Smith 1 born Cardiff.


No further sighting of Elizabeth. She dies in Childbirth in Cardiff.1901 she was 39 and lived in 11 Harold Street her son was still born in Cardiff
She had two daughters Elizabeth Ann born Bristol according to census around 1898 ?She never knew her birth date
 Her sister was Ethelreda born Cardiff 1899
In 1911 the daughters show up in Cwmfelinfach as adopted daughters living with Thomas Derbyshire abt1852 from London widower and his daughter Lottie and son in law Philip Joshua Thomas Thomas Derbyshire had been a seaman and had lived in Roath
I would like to find Elizabeth in 1891 and then track back to her parents Without marriage cert its proving difficult I would like to know more about Samuel Thomas We have some old shipping records of him
They however just show him on a boat called the Holmsdale. Thomas died before 1917 as he is said to be dead on Elizabeths marriage cert

I have asked on another web site but noone could really help Its a real brick wall Can anyone point me in right direction Thanks

[LMFAO]

Hello
Starting with Elizabeths parentage.
A Elizabeth Norris was baptised 09/08/1861 St John the Baptist Frome. Parents William and Paulina .Living at Innox Hill and William was a carpenter.

Then there is Elizabeth Ann Norris baptised 3/2/1860  All Saints Nunney .Parents John  [ Labourer ]and Ann .

Do you think Elizabeth Ann would be the more likely?

[jennyrob]

Thankyou for replying
On the 1901 Census in Cardiff she is known as Elizabeth A born abt1862 Frome .
I tend also to think she is the Nunney one as in 1871 she is in Frome workhouse with brother William and James.
 I cant find elizabeth after 1871 and I cant find marriage to Samual Thomas Smith ,a ships cook.
 I cant find birth of her first child Elisabeth and she never actually could track down birth records although she thought she was born in Bristol around 1896 Bristol have checked for me and GRO She neither could trace her records Perhaps no of these occasions were registered as they didn't have any money at all

[LMFAO]

It does seem that John and Ann where her parents
Found them in 1861 under the name of Naris living at Horn Street, Nunney
NARIS, John Head  31 1830 Carter born Mere in Wiltshire   
NARIS, Ann Wife  30 1831 Field Labourer born Nunney 
NARIS, Thomas Son 7 1854 born Nunney He was baptised John Thomas 17/7/1853
NARIS, Eliza 5 1856 born Nunney She was baptised Eliza Ann 17/2/1856   
NARIS, William Henry  2 1859 Scholar born Nunney He was baptised 3/10/1858 
NARIS, Elizabeth Ann Daughter  F 0 (4M) 1861 baptised 3/2/1860

They also had another son James Henry  6/12/1863
 John Norris married Ann Burge 25/12/1852 Nunney Father John Norris and James Burge .Witnessess were Frederick Hillier and Benjamin Dallimore. John signed Ann made her mark

In 1871 I can only see Elizabeth and William in the workhouse
A John Norris died Frome 1868 and a Ann1865 Frome is it seems that they had been orphaned. There are possible deaths for the other children as well .


No luck with Elizabeth in 81 0r 91 yet but I will keep on looking

[jennyrob]

Thankyou for that

 

Elizabeth in 1901 lived in Harold Street Roath Cardiff with her two children Elizabeth called Bessy born abt 1898 Bristol  and Ethelreda 1900 I have Ethelredas birth cert It says her father is Samuel Thomas Smith a Ships Steward Merchant Service and mother Elizabeth formally Norris
Elizabeth  died in child birth in 1901 along with son poss Thomas Alfred and Samuel is mentioned on death cert.

 Elizabeth was old having children and it is thought that she could  have previously been married

In 1911 the children were living with Thomas Derbyshire and says they are his adopted children He had been a seaman
Elizabeth married Reginald long in Cardiff in 1917 Her father was named as Thomas a ships cook deceased
 It was thought by the family he died at sea I did buy death cert of a TS smith who died at sea but its not right

[LMFAO]

Hi
you say you have some old shipping records of Samuel are there any other clues about him there?

[jennyrob]

If we are not barking up the wrong tree we have a log of the Homeside with a T Smith aged 54 in 1908, address 42 Croft St Cardiff ,previously serving on Gloxinia as Ships Cook and being from Liverpool

Again on Holmsside in 1909 a T Smith cook 55 liverpool That's it though one of relatives thought he served on Anglo Saxon

[LMFAO]

Sorry just cannot come up with anything else at the moment .Have a feeling Thomas was at sea at times of census.
I will try going down the line that Elizabeth was married before although you say on Ethelredas birth cert mothers previous name Norris.
Will see if I get any brain waves that might solve the mystery .Have not given up yet !!!!!

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Tthe Nunney one might well be her - her brother William may be in Monmouthshire  in 1911