Born at Sea??? How to get this birth certificate.

[Elly Jumes]

 
There have been several posts of (I believe my family connection) I still want  to confirm this is the case. I have William Charles Elms Jr, Born at sea, Born in Ireland or Born Southampton. I have contacted Southampton; they have no baptismal records of this. I was thinking this may have been the first port of call if he was on a troop ship.
 
W C Elms Jr was born 1869/7. It states on his marriage cert His father’s name was William Charles Elms Sr. and a soldier. I have had several different possibilities of what regiment he was in but still no confirmation where Jr. was born. He married Elizabeth Dellow and went on to be very prominent in the community with his own life. Died 26th January 1928.

What I am looking for is how to find out where he was born and to get the birth certificate and also what regiment his father was in if that is the case.   

Thanks 

[km1971]

There are no William Elms recorded as being born at sea - the registers are on Findmypast. The overseas amd regimental BMDs also give a blank - but these are not complete.

The only record for a soldier of that name (that survives) was discharged in 1856. Can you provide any details you have of the father, and also of the census that the son appears in.

Ken

[KGarrad]

The family on 1881 census:
Reference RG11, Piece 1342, Folio 121, Page 47
Albion Road, Twickenham

Elms, William  Head  M  44  Pensioner  b Heston, Middlesex
Elms, Mary A  Wife  F  36  Boot Binder  b Ireland
Elms, James Thomas  Son  M  19  Cartman  b Ireland
Elms, William  Son  M  12  Shopboy  b Ireland
Elms, Elizabeth  Daughter  F  Scholar  b East India (Town illegible, ...udbad?)
Elms, John  Son  M  6  Scholar  b Bellgium, East India
Elms, Joe E  Son  M  1  b Twickenham

I have typed this out because it might help other searchers to see the various places of birth


The marriage was on 4th August 1889, St Michaels Church, Wood Green
William Charles Elms, 21, Bachelor, Dairyman, 2 Clifton Terrace Nightingale Road
Elizabeth Dellow, 18  Spinster, 2 Dovecote Cottages, Wood Green


It's the 1911 census where William declares he was born "at sea".
The Elms family (and some Dellows) living in Edmonton, Middlesex.

[KGarrad]

1901 census:
RG13, 1266, 19, 29
72 Grosvenor Road, Edmonton, Middlesex

Elmes, William C  Head  M  31  Dairyman  b Southampton, Hampshire
Elmes, Elizabeth  Wife  F  28  b Wood Green
Elmes, Elizabeth  Daughter  F  8  b Wood Green
Elmes, William T  Son  M  6  b Wood Green
Elmes, Charles J  Son  M  3  b Wood Green
Elmes, Frederick K W L  Son  M  8 months  b Edmonton
Dellow, Jane  Servant  F  22  Dairymaid  b Wood Green
Dellow, Alfred B  Servant  M  17  Milk Carrier  b Wood Green
Dellow, Charles  Visitor  M  10  b Wood Green
Dellow, Henry  Servant  M  14  Milk Carrier  b Wood Green
Dellow, Matilda  Visitor  Widow  F  55  b Slibteny, Essex

1891 census
RG12, 1079, 39, 73
12 Station Road, Tottenham, Wood Green

Elms, William C  Head  M  21  Dairyman  b At Sea
Elms, Elizabeth  Wife  F  20  b Wood Green
Elms, William  Son  M  1  b Wood Green
Dellow, Matilda  Mother-in-Law  Widow  F  43  Charwoman  b Essex
+ the other Dellow children from 1901

[Elly Jumes]

Thanks so much for being interested in my post. That’s a positive start.

Hi km1871 as you can see KGarrad show’s W C Elms jr was born in Ireland on the 1881 census and the on the 1891 census he was born at sea.  And the 1901 stating he was born in Southampton. I think he was confused.
 
I do believe the lack of information from the prior census (1861 and before) was because he was out of country. 

I am a sad 'family tree hunter' and really want to confirm this is the correct connection and follow back further. I have some info on the wife of W C Elms Snr. but nothing on Snr. and his regiment details. I was hoping to gather info on Snr. to see if his war records would show where he was and the year my great grandfather was born and back track it from there.

Any other ideas?

I really want Jr.s birth cert too. I am convinced we are all connected but I would love to have the missing pieces.

[Elly Jumes]

The father W C Elms seems to have been born in Heston in about 1837. That's if this is the correct connection.

Married Mary A, Alderdice formerly Roache ( I believe had been married prior to Thomas Alderdice, st Catherine, Dublin, Ireland)  I have no marriage certificate for them (W C Elms snr.) either. I am guessing they could have been married in Ireland. which begs the question did WCElms Snr. go to Ireland as a soldier. I looked up Rinbad East Indies, some of his children had been born there, and there seems to be a connection to Railroads. May be he was an engineer in the forces. I am clutching at straws but have no details.

Thanks again

[km1971]

John was probably born in Belgaum, Bombay Presidency. The 66th Regiment were there as of 31st December 1873. This from the 1874 Army List. You really need the 1875 issue to be sure.

Ken