Wilsons/Rogersons of Tundergarth and Lockerbie

[JunoH]

Hi all,

Am stuck on my ggg-grandfather, James Wilson b. between 1782 and 1801 in Tundergarth, who lived at Bridge Street, Lockerbie from 1841 until his death in 1866.

He was probably married to a Mary Black or Blaik b. c1796 in Dumfriesshire but I can find no record of their marriage.

The facts I have are:-

1841 Census, living at Bridge St., Lockerbie
James Wilson, Head, (40), Ag Lab day [b.c1801]
Mary Wilson, (45)
Andrew Wilson (18)
Margaret Wilson (16)
James Wilson (14)- my gg-grandfather.

1851 Census, living at Bridge St., Lockerbie
James Wilson, Head, Widower, (51), formerly Shepherd, b. Tundergarth [b. c1800]
Andrew Wilson, Son, Single, (25), Farm servant, b. Dryfesdale
Margaret Wilson, Dau, Single, (23), b. Dryfesdale
James Wilson, Son, Single, (20) Ag Lab, b. Dryfesdale
Andrew Wilson, Grandson, (4), b. Dryfesdale [young Andrew is Margaret Wilson's illegitimate son]

1861 Census, living at Bridge St., Lockerbie
James Wilson, Head, Widower, (68), Lab, b. Tundergarth [b. c1793]
Margaret Wilson, Dau., Single, (34), Dressmaker, b. Dryfesdale
Andrew (looks like) Wishit, Single, (14), Grandson, Scholar, b. Dryfesdale [think this should be Andrew Wilson]
James Nicol, Single, (7), Grandson, Scholar, b. Dryfesdale [can't find his birth]

-also in Bridge St., Lockerbie in 1861 his son James's family:-
James Wilson, Head, Marr, (30), Lab., b. Dryfesdale
Mary [Dickson] Wilson, Wife, (28), b. Dalton
Janet Wilson, Dau., (6), Scholar, b. Dryfesdale
Walter Wilson, Son, (4), b. Dryfesdale
Robert Wilson, Son, (2), b. Dryfesdale
James Wilson, Son, (2 mos), b. Dryfesdale

(I included his son's family as children's names may give some clue to earlier names)

James Wilson Snr and Mary Black had 4 children that I know of:-
William b. 1820,  Andrew b. 1826, Margaret b.1828 and James b.1830.  William's death record gives his parents as James Wilson and Mary Black,  Andrew's gives James Wilson and Margaret Black, I can find no death record for Margaret, and James' death record has James Wilson as father and 'not known' for mother.

A death record I found for James Wilson of Bridge St., Lockerbie dated 20 Feb 1866 has him as James Wilson, 84yrs [b. c1782!], Pauper, formerly cattle driver, Widower of Mary Black.
FATHER: Name not known
MOTHER: Joan Wilson M.S. ROGERSON (dec'd)
INFORMANT: James (his X mark) Wilson, Son, Present.

I found a Joanna Wilson (65), [b. c1776] living at Lairdholme, Tundergarth in 1841 with a John Wilson (30), Mary Wilson (32), Jean Saddler (10) and Joanne Bell (7)
I found death of Jean Rogerson at Dalbate, Tundergarth in 1843
I found above Mary Wilson (49), Widow, at Dalbate in 1851, with dau Jean Wilson b.1833 and Mary's niece Joanne Bell (17) and nephew Robert Bryan 9ms

Looking at the death record of above Mary Wilson, 77yrs, at 'Debate', Tundergarth in 1877, parents' details are both blank!

Looking at the 1902 death record of one JANE WILSON, 90yrs, (who was living at 'Debate', Tundergarth along with above Mary Wilson in later censuses), her parents are given as SAMUEL WILSON and JOAN ROGERSON. 

It's all a bit confusing, firstly because the name Samuel does not carry down through the Wilson tree at all, and with my James Snr's age appearing to increase a whole generation until he's practically the same age as a woman I had thought was possibly his mother!!

It looks to me as if there are two different elderly James Wilsons, because the ages are far too far apart for him to have shaved nearly 20 years off of it merely for the sake of vanity.  And yet the wife's name - Mary Black / Blaik ties in on each of them??   I think I need to clap eyes on a few MIs in the Lockerbie / Tundergarth area before I'll unravel this one.

Any help greatly appreciated 

June

[cupcake]

Hi,

It does seem a tad confusing. Not sure this will help, may confuse you more.

The Mary Wilson in the 1841 census was 45 and appears she died between 1841/1851, as James was a widower in 1851. So, she would have been 45/55 years old.

If I am correct, the death record you mention - Mary Wilson, 77yrs, at 'Debate', Tundergarth in 1877, parents' details are both blank! can't be the Mary Wilson in the 1841 census. The name Mary doesn't seem to follow through.

I did find a marriage of a Robert Wilson to a Mary Black on the 31 July 1803 - Dumfries on Family Search. Don't know whether there is a connection. Did wonder if the Robert was your GGG Grandfather James's brother.

There is a Robert Wilson aged 2 in the 1861 census.

If I come accross anything, I shall let you know.

cupcake

[JunoH]

Thanks anyway for giving it a go cupcake 

I've probably confused you with too many Mary's in my pamphlet-sized posting, but the later Mary I mentioned was actually a possibility as a sister for my James W as she seems to have been in the same houses (Lairdholm and Dalbate) as the elderly Joanna\Jean Wilson nee Rogerson, and I at first thought she might be JoanRogerson's daughter-in-law but later felt she could be her daughter.

I checked Debate in the 1861, 1871 and 1881 census records and this Mary Wilson continued to live there with various nieces and nephews coming and going. An elderly sister, Jane Wilson, shared the house with her in later years and I figured one of their death records might have Joan Rogerson as their mother and voila! Jane's did, with father's name as Samuel Wilson.

That didn't help though as there are no more Samuels in my Wilson line, so I reckon I am on the wrong trail with these Wilson/Rogersons :-/

Thanks again for looking 

[Jamjar]

Cupcake, was thinking you may get something from that church book we used for the Jardine info.

Another person who can't explain a Samuel.

Jamjar

[cupcake]

Hi JunoH,

As Jamjar mentioned, the Tundergarth Parish Record book might have some info. I'll look the next time I am at the library.

I was at the Dryfesdale Cemetery on Sunday but didn't have any of your info with me.

cupcake

[cupcake]

Hi JunoH,

Went to the library today and went through the Records of Tundergarth Parish 1791- 1895 and only found one James Wilson birth for Tundergarth, within the time frame you gave.

James son of Robert Wilson - Peatstackdale - March 10 1792. Peatstackdale is in Tundergarth. The only thing is, it doesn't fit in with the James Wilson in the 1841/1851 census. The above James Wilson would have been 49/59 and not 40/51 as in the census's.

However, the age of James in the 1861 census is only a year out.

Also checked the marriages for a James Wilson and Mary Black on the OPR's and there are none. I still think the Mary Wilson, may have been James's sister. There was a Mary Wilson born to a Robert Wilson Dec 31 1800.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

cupcake

[JunoH]

Thanks cupcake.  It was very kind of you to have a look on my behalf.

Yes, a Mary Wilson was born in Tundergarth Parish to a Robert Wilson in 1800.  I had that in my notes somewhere and the birth was at Lairdholm.  Which was what led me to Joan Rogerson (aforesaid) in the first place 

Thanks for giving it a go though. Very much appreciated.