Author Topic: COMPLETED: Dorothea Degnan Living in Belper 1911.  (Read 3194 times)

Offline MotoFreako64

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COMPLETED: Dorothea Degnan Living in Belper 1911.
« on: Wednesday 06 June 12 23:22 BST (UK) »
I have a strange one that is baffling both my cousin and I. My 2nd Great Grand Uncle was Freeman Taylor, born in Belper Derbyshire in 1850. About 1865, the family moved to Netherton, near Dudley in Worcestershire where they worked as nailers. Freeman married a Netherton girl named Zillah Fletcher but by 1891, Freeman had moved back to Belper with his family, eventually working for Midland Railways as a smithy. They had 6 children in total, but only 2 survived to 1911... 3 of them were Alicia, Elizabeth and Eva.

Now the oddity. On the 1911 census, Freeman and Zillah are living at Mill House, Chevin?, Belper, along with an adopted daughter named Dorothea Degnan (or Dignan). She is listed as being aged 13 and born in Liverpool, Lancs.

The only other mention of a Dorothea Degnan (an Irish name) is on the 1901 census. There is a record of a Dorothea Degnan (b 1898) living at 74 South Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool, Lancs with her parents Thomas Degnan (b 1873 Chesterfield, Derby's) and Alice (b 1871 Derby). Dorothea is shown to have been born in Liverpool.

Our first thought was that Dorothea's mother (Alice Degnan) could have been Alicia Taylor, Freeman's daughter, and maybe she had died (1 of the 4 children who had died by 1911) and Freeman and Zillah had adopted their grandaughter so to say.... but the birth dates for Alicia/Alice don't match - b 1880 on the 1881 and 1891 census, but Alice Degnan is said to have been born 1871 on the 1901 census.  At this time people didn't just adopt children ad-hoc unless there was a connection, especially as Freeman and Zillah had their own children and were aged 60 and 55 respectively in 1911. So... can anybody tie this Dorothea Degnan to the Taylor family please? Find a marriage for Thomas Degnan to prove the maiden name of Alice? or find what happened to the taylor children?

Thanks for any advice, help, hints you can give to very confused guys  ???

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Dorothea Degnan Living in Belper 1911.
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 07 June 12 00:30 BST (UK) »
Hi

If she was their grandchild - she would be shown as such.  Adopted daughter suggests she was not biologically related to them.

There is a Thomas Degnan death in 1910 aged 38 which may be her father
 
Births June qtr 1898 
Dorothea Degnan     Toxteth Park  8b 219

Her birth cert will show her mothers maiden name
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline crisane

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Re: Dorothea Degnan Living in Belper 1911.
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 07 June 12 01:02 BST (UK) »
At this time people didn't just adopt children ad-hoc unless there was a connection, especially as Freeman and Zillah had their own children and were aged 60 and 55 respectively in 1911.

It may be a very tenuous connection. My father was informally adopted in 1911. His adoptive parents lived a few doors away from the brother of his birth mother.
Adoptive parents childless since their marriage in 1898, birth parents = married and irresponsible.

So the link can be as tenuous as that.
It may also be that Dorothea helped look after them.

Offline MotoFreako64

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Re: Dorothea Degnan Living in Belper 1911.
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 07 June 12 09:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the birth certificate details CaroleW, it's all good so far... Still wonder why a family from Belper adopt a girl from Liverpool, unless her parents moved back to Derbyshire before 1911.


Offline spendlove

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Re: Dorothea Degnan Living in Belper 1911.
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 07 June 12 12:52 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Not sure if you are aware but Dorothea Degnan may have had 2 sisters:-

Hypatia Lillian Degnan   born 1896 Toxteth Park
 she married William H Brown  1923 Belper

Beatrice May Degnan  1903 West Derby
she married William Needham June Q 1921 Belper


All the above info from http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Mill House, is still there today, on Chevin Road, Belper.

Spendlove
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Spendlove, Strutt in London & Middlesex.

Offline MotoFreako64

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Re: Dorothea Degnan Living in Belper 1911.
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 07 June 12 13:18 BST (UK) »
wow  8) Excellent thanks - It looks like the family did move back to Belper then. That at least gives us something else to look at.

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Dorothea Degnan Living in Belper 1911.
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 07 June 12 16:51 BST (UK) »
In 1901 - Hypatia Dignan aged 5 is shown as a visitor with Mary Williams & her children in Heswall - Wirral

Mary Williams - no husband shown - was b 1871 "Bosset"??
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline spendlove

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Re: Dorothea Degnan Living in Belper 1911.
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 07 June 12 20:55 BST (UK) »
Hi Everyone,

Sorry, in my last post I put the wrong husbands to the Degnan sisters, this is what it should be:-

Hypatia L Degnan =  Frank Gascoyne   Belper Sept Quarter 1917

Beatrice M Degnan - William B Needham Belper  June Quarter 1921

Dorothea Degnan = William H Brown Belper December Quarter 1923

To check for yourself, just search:-
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Select Belper Registration District, select Marriage, because the surname is unusual (for this area) just entering Degnan without dates or names will produce only the above 3 results.

Many thanks to Dizzyfish for letting me know.

Spendlove
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Spendlove, Strutt in London & Middlesex.

Offline MotoFreako64

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Re: Dorothea Degnan Living in Belper 1911.
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 07 June 12 21:21 BST (UK) »
This all good stuff, thankyou to the good people on RootsChat.Com. I have discovered that I have quite a few ancestors in the Belper/Duffield/Pentrich area (Taylor/Parker/Steeples/Key), so if I get stuck again I'll know where to come with my Derbyshire queries.  8)