Doune, Perthshire birth record for Anderson Todd

[tomwdcraftr]

My Great Grandmother was Anderson Todd born about 1840 or 1841 to Matthew Todd and Helen Drummond. The 1851 Scotland Census shows her as "Andrew" incorrectly. Birthplace shows as Daun, Perthshire, but seems this must be Doune, Perthshire? A lot of other info is correct for family members on that census, so I think this is Anderson.

I haven't been able to locate a birth record at Scotland's People. I'm hoping to still find a birth record, and wonder if Doune birth records for the 1840/41 period are available??

Tom McMillan

[andycand]

Hi Tom

As the birth was before Statutory Registration the only record would be a baptism. Scottish OPRs are indexed on Familysearch and a search for children of Matthew Todd and Helen Drummond only finds 2 hits,

Robert Todd  born  10 Jul 1834  christening:  21 Jul 1834  Melrose, Roxburghshire

John Todd, born  4 Nov 1836   christening: 5 Nov 1836 ​ Crawford Lanarkshire

In the 1841 census the family were living in Port of Menteith, Perthshire, Anderson Todd age 1 born outside Perthshire. You would need to look at the image to see if this has been transcribed correctly.

Andy

[tomwdcraftr]

Thanks Andy!!

I do have the original records for Robert and John, and the originals of the 1841 and 1851 census.

These folks were Scottish Travellers, so children were each born in a different location.

On the 1841 census it does appear for Anderson to be an "n" for no so indicating not born in that county. However, a Sister Helen/Ellen shows "y" and I beleive she was born outside Perthshire. A record of the birth of Helen/Ellen's child (child born in Linlithgow), and for Helen/Ellen shows she was born in Ayrshire which agrees with the 1851 census.

I know some on the 1851 census are shown to be born in the wrong location for them. Sometimes I believe Travellers gave out incorrect info. However, I do believe it is correct for some. Sometimes Travellers stayed on farms with other Travellers, and the person reporting to the census taker may not have known the correct info for everyone.

Thanks!!  Tom

Perhaps, the birth records for others will eventually become available.

[tomwdcraftr]

I had a message from another board I'll share:  "Have a look at scotlandspeople website. Under Help with Searching choose 'List of Parishes and Registration Districts' and under Doune the earliest records seem to be in 1954. Doune seems to be in the parish of Kilmadock."

This led me to a PDF file showing what years records are available for by district. It seems there are records for Kilmadock, but Doune only shows from 1954.

Perhaps, this PDF file would be helpful for others looking for why records may not be available at Scotland's People.

Thanks!!  Tom

[andycand]

Hi Tom

As you say, Doune comes under the Parish of Kilmadock and the Parish Registers up to 1854 are on both Familysearch (as an index) and Scotlandspeople with images. Given that they were travellers and moved around,  even though she was born in Doune according to the census, she could have been baptised anywhere. Also the Parish Registers are the Registers of the Church of Scotland but there were other denominations whose registers are not online anywhere.

Andy

[tomwdcraftr]

Thanks Andy!!

Guess it will remain a mystery for now.

I've found quite a few baptisms for Travellers, but very few marriages. It seems marriages may have been performed amongst their own group.

I'll keep watching for new info to open up.

Thanks!!  Tom

[fifer1947]

This shows up on familysearch so maybe born in Doune but just along the road in Port of Menteith a year later?

Anderson Todd
Scotland Census, 1841   
birth:   1840   Scotland
residence:   1841   Port Of Menteith,​ Perthshire,​ Scotland

PS Doune was under KILMADOCK parish in the OPRs at Scotland's People.

[fifer1947]

Looks like your man was a peddlar!     And they've got Anderson down as male!

A wee bit of local knowledge here I would suggest trying both Stirling and Perthshire when looking for your family births.  Drummond is a local name to South Perthshire and there were a great many traveller stopped at Thornhill/Norrieston in Kincardine Perthshire, there was also lots of labour work both there and in Gargunnock in Stirlingshire.

Piece: SCT1841/388 Place: Port of Monteith -Perth Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Port Of Monteith Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Gartmore  Folio: 7 Page: 6  Address: 37 Village Of Gartmore
TODD    Matthew M    40 Stone Ware Merchant England           
TODD    Helen      F    40          Outside Census County            
TODD    Janet      F    15          Outside Census County         
TODD    Helen      F    11               Perth           
TODD    Robert    M    6          Outside Census County            
TODD    John         M 4               Outside Census County        
TODD    Anderson M 1               Outside Census County

It looks like wife and all children were born in Scotland but not in Perthshire except Helen (that may not be correct as earlier explanation)       

This may interest you  http://www.gartmoreheritage.org/History/history_18.htm

[tomwdcraftr]

Thanks!!

The original of the 1841 census does show Anderson as 1 year old, and as a female. It was apparently transcribed incorrectly.

When I obtained the original census copy, I found Helen (Drummond) Todd's Brother Alexander Drummond and family were directly above them on the 1841 census. Alexander Drummond was also a stoneware merchant.

Thanks!!  Tom