McKerlies - Campbell's Croft, Old Luce, Wigtownshire, 1700's

[PlayaCofi]

Monica,

Yes, the independent is the "other" George. Interestingly I searched for "George McKerly" on Ancestry in the 1841 census and only came up with the "other" George.

I then went to Robert Mcmaster and found it.

What website did you use if you found it so easily?

Karen

Big progress for you by the sounds of it!

So there were two George's then?!

The George McKerlie, Independent, who shows with a Barbara Sharp and Mary McCubbin in 1841 is not your (husband's) ancenstor? This is the George with the Jamaican connenctions?

Have you seen the other George on the 1841 census? Age showing as 70, but 1841 census ages are always tricky:

Robert MCMASTER, 28, Ag Lab    
Elizabeth MCMASTER, 27
George MCKERLY, 70, Ag Lab, Ireland           
John MCKERLY, 15, Ag Lab         
Agnes MURHEAD, 15, female servant        
Agnes MATHEWS, 3   

Address: Caldons, Stoneykirk    

The death details are always great to confirm. By the way, these details are from the statutory registers (not parish registers). The 1883 marriage will also reconfirm his parents' details. Interesting to see the shock of the family's reaction from the Kirk Session minutes to his marriage from his son James to a 19 year old girl in 1883...

Monica        

[MonicaL]

I looked here www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl - particularly good for the earlier censuses and most accurate as manned by volunteers (in my opinion  ).

Monica

PS: Anywhere you can, use wildcard symbols to pick up on spelling variations. SP, A/try and FreeCen all use the '*' symbol to replace letters.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Agnes McKerlie (born on 27 Nov 1804 in Dundinnie, Leswalt Parish?) who married an Andrew Matthews in 1823, Inch Wigtownshire is possibly a sister to your James - see www.btinternet.com/~fraser.hamilton2/afsg21.htm  See also http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.scotland.wig.general/792/mb.ashx

If you look on FreeCen, you will see Agnes McCarlie, wife of Andrew Marshall showing in Church Street, Old Luce for 1841. Your James and wife Ann also show as McCarlie in 1841 (the joy of spelling variations!).

Monica

[PlayaCofi]

As for Agnes.

I did run across her in someone's family tree the other day and it says that my George and Agnes are her parents. As you said, born in Leswalt.

The tree says that she was born 27 Nov. 1804. It also cites 2 citations for that and neither match what they entered in the tree (birthdate above) The first citation is a 1851 census for Burton Parish, Cheshire, Englad where she lives with her husband Andrew and children. All it says for where she was born was Scotland (no leswalt) in about 1805 and her age was 46. To me that is not a valid citation.

The second citation attached is from a 1881 Scotland Census from Sorbie Parish. It states that she was born in Sorbie and at the age of the census she was 70 and they estimated birth year was about 1811. Again that is not a valid citation in my mind. BUT, it seems everyone on Ancestry is. By the way I have no clue where they came up with the birthdate. There was no citation.

BUT...on the 1841 census that George is in does mention a 3 year old and low and behold that fits Agnes's daugter Anges to the T.

Also on the census are 2 other names of interest. The first is McMaster. I have run across McMaster's marring into both the McDowells and McKerlies in the past but I cannot put my fingers on it right now.

The second is John McKerley age 15.

Another family tree has posted on Ancestry saying that George and Agnes had a son John McCarlie b. about 1802 born in Leswalt. He married Janet Reid on 26 Aug 1823 (no citation) and the tree said they had 9 children. The 1941 census says he was 39  and his year of birth was about 1802. The 1861 census says he was 49 again his birth year about 1802. The tree says he died in 1863. The only citations in the wholw tree are these 2 census's. BUT if I can piece it together that would seem conducive with the 15 year old John McKerley on the census possibly being the oldest son of this John.

BUT yet again, I am not the sort of person that takes others words without legitimate citations. So this is another thing on my list. I may go into Scotlandspeople.uk and see what I can find there.

My problem is what to tackle first. George, Agnes, James b. 1802, Agnes b. 1804 or what I wanted to do the first thing this morning at about 5:30 am when I sat down at this computer, the 1797 Horse tax roll. It is 5:42 pm now and I can tell you after 12 hours at this computer, I am DONE for the day.

Sorry for any spelling or mistakes. I am tired.

[PlayaCofi]

Does anyone know if there was a 1831 Scotland census?

[Skoosh]

 Trotter, in "Galloway Gossip" 1901, gives this name as MacArley, pronounced MaKerlie and spelled Kerlie, "once they got the gentility".
This book is a must for folk with Galloway connections, very entertaining.

Skoosh.

[PlayaCofi]

I now have close to 45 different spellings for mcKerlie.

I went to all of my online booksellers and one of them had this:

Galloway Gossip Sixty Years Ago; Being a Series of Articles Illustrative of the Manners, Customs, and Peculiarities of the Aboriginal Picts of Galloway

by Maria Trotter

But that does not seem to to be the same. Maybe his wife's or daughter?

[MonicaL]

Hi Karen

Your earlier question about a possible 1831 census...unfortunately, the earliest census for genealogical purposes is the 1841 census. There are a few local censuses in the UK pre 1841 where you may find a little bit of info, but in the main, the earlier censuses, introduced purely for statistical purposes, are not much help with genealogy research.

I think you will find many people here on RC in complete agreement about the need to verify your research/sources every step of the way as it is so easy to go off track at various key points of research  Having said that, I do think if you are fortunate enough to find online family trees on your lines (boo for me, I feel like a lonely soul, never having found anything on my lot online ) they can provide a good starting point when looking for further info. Out of interest, have you ever liaised with other researchers on these lines to ask how they have got their info or made their connections?

In respect of confirmation of possible siblings for James. We have Agnes married to an Andrew Mathews and also John married to a Janet Reid? Is there any mention on trees as to when/where Agnes may have died? Similarly with John? Scottish death certs, as you have found, are very informative (also quick and easy, and economical to get to view for this period, through SP).

Monica

[PlayaCofi]

Good afternoon Monica,

Something tells me that if I could find a census prior to the 1841 I may be able to solve my problems, but alas.....

This morning I worked for 4-5 hours strictly on agnes. I started with Scotspeople and concentrated fom 1760- 1804 for births and marriage's. The reason I started with 1760 is because a few trees state that both of their birthdays were 1762 even though I knew there was little chance that Agnes would have a 3 children in her 50's. Or at least I did not think so.

So I found 3 possible birth records for an Agnes in that time period.

30 April 1772, Father Patrick McDowall, Stranraer Parish

04 April 1778, Father James McDowell, Mother Helen McCoskrie, Stranaer Parish

15 Oct 1784, Father William McDowell, Mother Agnes McClurg, Kirkmaiden, Wig.

Those birthdates to me make more sense for the age of a mother from 1800-1808.

There were 4 marriages for an Agnes McDowell during that period but none to a George McDowell.

As far as death goes I checked on Scotspeople and hit a dead end. So my only option is to start looking into Ireland since John had that as his place of birth on the 1841 census. I think since I do not have a county though, I will only concentrate on the coastal counties across the sea from Wigtownshire.

I will take your advice on checking with other researchers, thanks for the tip.

My next move is going to try to piece together this James b. 1802 and Agnes b. 1802. I will try Scotspeople first.

I was lucky with the McKerlies tree. My husbands cousin Ellen traveled from California to Old Luce back in the early 70's. She passed away in 2001 and when my husband started a webpage for the Vyborny-McKerlie family her kids passed it on to him. She researched everything prior to the internet and handtyped it.

My husbands grandfather (and hers) was Alexander who was the son of James b. 1839 who was the son of James 1808.

Alexander married Roxie Doran in 1903. That was a little tricker to figure out but I have it back to 1825 in Franklin County, Va. and a lead possibly taking it back to the further generation in 1690 but I need to contact the Library of Virginia to ask them to please, please pull the file and send me a copy. At least I have the box number and file number.

Ah and then the Vyborny's. My husband already had them back to 1790 but try building a tree on Ancestry and typing all of those Czech names in, not fun. There is a Czech Vyborny site online that I can continue to link our family to but I am not in a rush to start typing those names again

So as to MY family? One was easy, there was already a book written on my mothers family (Duffields from England who immigrated to the US in 1682) so I have not bothered to build a tree since it is all over Ancestry.

My fathers is another story. I have made it back to my great grandfather who arrived in the US from Italy, Giovanni Senise in 1888 and hit a brick wall. So I totally understand.

What is the family information that you hit a brick wall on. Maybe someone else looking at it fresh may help. Trust me, I am getting burnt out on George and Agnes and want to pull my hair out.

Are you in Scotland?

Karen