Joseph Dyson Lister the Independent Zionist, census lookup

[Valda]

10 November 05

Hello again Louise, That is great information which Bob has provided! It certainly fleshes out details about the family of Samuel BENN and Elizabeth JOWETT. However, while the hypothesis that a) Mary in the 1841 census was the wife/widow of a William b) Samuel aged 7 in the 1841 census is the same as the Samuel who m Elizabeth JOWETT c) Samuel who was with Eliza VIPOND in 1881 is the same as the Samuel who m Elizabeth JOWETT (and had fathered nine children with her)is probably correct, we still don't seem to have - unless I have missed something - details which would further support that hypothesis. Sorry to harp on about this!

Getting back to Samuel, and his parents and siblings, many more details about the evidence supporting the propositions are needed. At present it seems to be fairly slim insofar as we know it (and I think that's what Valda is saying). Basically, it seems to be that Samuel's father was a William (from his marriage certificate), that Samuel aged 7 in a Mary's household in the 1841 census is of the right age, and that Elizabeth in the same household in 1841 is of the right age to be the Elizabeth born 1818 to a William BENN and a Mary.

How unfortunate that the father of the family with 7yo Samuel in 1841 was not in that census. It would have been very re-assuring had he been there and had he been William, a weaver! I wonder what (if anything) else the various researchers have and whether they could please share it. For instance, assuming that the current hypothesis is correct (and I strongly suspect that it is!), I would like to see/know (some of these overlap) the full record from the Bradford parish register of the 1816 marriage of William BENN and Mary FOSTER the full record from the church register of Kipping Independent-Nc, Thornton By Bradford for Elizabeth's baptism in 1818 whether any information exists to indicate that William had died by 1841*whether any possible unattached William has been found in the 1841 census*whether Zillah has been found in the 1841 census. How/why did the researchers slot Zillah into the family?*Zillah's 1841 marriage certificate (on FreeBMD as Zilla). Of interest - was her father William, a weaver. Was he listed as deceased. Names of witnesses.*Margaret's 1849 marriage certificate - same matters of interest.*Elizabeth's 1851 marriage certificate - same matters of interest.*death certificate of Mary snr*marriage cert of Mary jnr - of interest as above*records after the 1841 census of Joshua And, of course, we still don't have*Samuel in the 1851 census.

 I can't recall whether we have Mary snr in the 1851 or later? As I read the most recent correspondence, the only additional piece of information we now have is the parish register entry for Elizabeth BENN who married James ISHERWOOD in 1851. It a) indicates that the father of this Elizabeth was named William and was a weaver but not whether he was deceased b) that this Elizabeth was of an appropriate age (33) to be the Elizabeth, daughter of a William and a Mary, bap in 1818.But this doesn't even prove that this Elizabeth is the Elizabeth in the 1841 census with Mary etc (and her age in 1841 was a bit low - 20) and the witnesses don't help. The hypothesis that Samuel BENN in 1841 = Samuel BENN who married Elizabeth JOWETT and had 9 children = Samuel BENN who was with Eliza VIPOND in 1881, is very attractive but it would be good to find some proof to tie everything together.

JAP
         
         
10 November 05

Bob has given you a lot of information it would have been very costly to amass yourself. It is always worth checking to see what one namers actually hold and they are generous in sharing the information they have. However as JAP says other than Elizabeth's marriage we are no further forward on the earlier stuff. I concur with JAP, + no burials info at all, no banns (and other than Samuel we may not get them if the marriages were not at St. Peters). It is worth checking whether Bob has any of this earlier information.

Regards
Valda

[Valda]

10 November 05

I'm going back to what I said earlier - a b. cert for the child b. 1855 (Ruth ?) gives continuity for as long as she is in the household, her parents and siblings can then be used as in census returns to come further forward. If Ruth Benn was with Jowett grandparents then Jowett has to be her mother's maiden name - unless there was an adoption. Ruth was the first born so that takes us back furthest. We now have the following addresses hypothetically for the same family 1841 Brownroyd - lower (Bradford) end of Wibsey near Southfield Lane, Horton1853 Horton (m to Jowett)1855 Revo Hill Top - I believe this to be Reevy Hill opposite end of Wibsey to Brownroyd 1861 Re(e)vy Hall - same as Reevy Hill 1871 Revy Hall 1873 Horton (where in Horton?) 1876 Pot House - off Reevy Road near Harbour1877 Kingswood Street - Horton 1881 x2 Kingswood Street - Horton 1883 W(h)atmough Street - Horton (not Thornton) 2 streets away from Kingswood Street1884 Watmough Street1889 Marlborough (Street? I have a Marlborough Road, Manningham) 1891 Marlborough Street. Combining this with the marriages we should then be back from 1891 to 1853 with proof. What do you think JAP?

Regards
Dave
         
   
      
10 November 05

I think we are all in agreement, this tidies up the second generation but does nothing for the earlier one. There is no proof that the 1841 census entry is our Samuel, the only thing we know about our Samuel is the moveable feast of his year of birth, his place of birth (Shelf) which is another moveable feast and the name and profession of his father at the time of Samuel's marriage. As the 1841 census does not involve any of this material, although could be right on age, we cannot know it is him. I will have to go back to Bob and ask him what he has extracted from the Bradford Parish Registers before 1851 which is when his entries sent to me begin. I find it hard to believe that this is so difficult, it is practically in living memory yet we are continually stumped. I know there is no proof that the Samuel who married Elizabeth is my Samuel, but I have decided to accept that he is, and so he shall be henceforth - you have to take the odd executive decision in this game! Dave, I will email Brenda and ask her if she has Ruth's birth certificate and could share the content with us

Best wishes to all
Louise
         
   
      
11 November 05

Brenda has kindly supplied me with the information from Ruth's birth certificate. There is no doubt that this is the same family - obviously Samuel had a few changes of career. 1855 Birth in the district of North Bierley in the County of York Entry No 283Where and when born  26th September 1855 Revo Hill Top. Name Ruth Sex  Girl Name and Surname of Father  Samuel  BENN Name, surname and maiden name of mother  Elizabeth BENN formerly JOWETT Occupation of father  Labourer at Iron Works Signature, description and residence of informant  X The mark of Samuel Benn, Father, Revo Hill Top, North Bierley When registered  31st October 1855

Regards
Louise

[Valda]

11 November 05

Thank you Louise and Brenda! Yet another piece of the jigsaw falls into place. I hope that all of you descendants are enjoying this puzzle as much as those of us who are looking on - and interfering! - from the sidelines, are!

Best regards,
JAP
         
   
      
16 November 05

Hello everyone I have heard back from The Widdop one-name study woman who says she has blown up her PC and has not yet put all her paper records back on to a new one so cannot help just at the moment2. Bob the Benn one-name study man who says he linked the St Peters Bradford marriages and censuses of 1861 through to 1901 of Samuel Benn's family to the 1841 census in Brown Royd Hill (I think that is what it was called, from memory) that we have seen here before, by the incidence of names and dates etc. Presumably he is as sorry as we were that father William was not on the census himself. That being the case, he assumes children, including our Samuel, with a father named William Benn weaver and a mother named Mary. I think that is as far as he has gone with this line.

So we are on our own and able to decide whether we are prepared to accept the 1841 census for ourselves. I do hope you won’t all bail out on me now! I have also heard from the National Archives concerning John William Wilson/Benn enclosing lots and lots of his army records. You may remember I went to London and saw the records but did not have time to print them before my train was due. I can confirm that he joined 18/1/1899 initially as a militia man when he said he was 19 years and no months. By my reckoning he was actually 17 years and 11 months in reality. Perhaps he did not know how old he was, given that he joined as John WILSON - no middle name. He said he was born in the parish of Idle, Bradford. I am unclear about where this joining happened as the records I have seen actually start on 31st December 1901.On this date he moved from the militia to the regular army in the shape of the Northumberland Fusiliers. His number was 8360. On one paper he joined in Hull, in another he was physically examined in Newcastle - on the same date, 3rd January 1902 few days later. On 6th Jan 1902 he was transferred to the regular forces in Scarborough where he married Daisy Kate Hilton the following year. On the 10th Feb 1910 he transferred to the 1st batallion of the Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry in Aldershot. Within days he was in the 2nd batallion, or they made a mistake with their original paperwork. His number was 9656.In 1913 he signed up for a total 21 year service, but in March 1914 he asked to be let go after doing 12 years and 73 days. I don’t know when the First World War began so do not know if this was significant. He and his family were by now living in Singapore. He then joined the Singapore volunteer force, but that might have been later, after the war was over. They were still there in 1922 then they moved back to England.

The 1908 papers show a signature of John Wilson but these papers and earlier ones were subsequently altered to read "alias John Wilson Benn." Later papers are signed by John Wilson Benn, so he must have decided to take the name around then. Does that coincide with the death of Mrs Wilson, whoever she was? His discharge papers in March 1914 describe him as aged 33 years and x months where x is a figure that looks a bit like a capital Y. Presumably either 4 or 7 although if he was born in February 1881 he should have been 33 years and 1 month. This figure does not appear elsewhere in the document so I cannot be sure what it is. His trade in all these papers is given as a TURNER which ought to be helpful. I haven't bored you with all his postings because you don’t need to know, but they do match up with the births of my great aunts and uncles. I just cannot find it at the moment but on one document there was a reference to John William Benn. I hope you will be pleased to hear that he was variously described as of very good military character good, hardworking and reliable exemplary service jolly good! He was 5'7", size 7 shoe with fair hair and blue eyes. I do have a photo of him somewhere taken in the 1930s that I might post up here sometime if I can work out how to do it! I hope I have extracted out any clues that we might need.

Best wishes
Louise

[Valda]

16 November 05

Just as a matter of interest did you also obtain his militia papers or just his regular army papers?

http//www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=26&ampj=1

The militia papers might give next of kin and an address when John enrolled in 1899, though I am unclear which militia he was actually in.
In the end the only connection to Scarborough from John's military records seems to be because the army sent him there??
My original comments about earlier useful Benn records still stand and I still don't quite see how by incidences of names and dates Zillah gets a presumed connection to the family...... though I can see why the others might.

Regards
Valda
   
      
         
17 November 05

Hello Louise and Valda, Good points Valda - especially that one would expect a record of next-of-kin. The fact that the BENN one-namer Bob hasn't consulted the parish records and, apparently, doesn't have all of the relevant certificates (two things I've been harping on painfully for the last couple of pages) means that both those possibilities remain open as a possible source of further information. Certainly trawling through parish records (CofE and non-conformist) might reveal something. And did we ever discover whether Poor Law records have survived. I think we also wondered about Wills.

Pity about the computer failure of the WIDDOP one-namer...Louise, one of the best things to come out of the Nat Arch papers seems to be that you have one and the same person identified as John WILSON, John William WILSON and John Wilson BENN. Which sends me back to thinking again about Robert R (presumably Rawnsley) and Ellen/Nellie WILSON of Manningham who didn't have a son John with them in the 1881 census but the widowed Nellie had a 10yo son John William WILSON in 1891. Which would fit the family folklore about John Wilson BENN having been brought up by a WILSON family, and having come from Manningham. I was also thinking again about the enigmatic HILTON and E WILSON witnesses at the wedding of Eliza LISTER/VIPOND to LONG. Incidentally, remember Tiras, 15yo son of Robert and Ellen/Nellie in 1881? He is surely the Tiras, transcribed as Siras, aged 3 with his grandparents Joseph WILSON and Jane (presumably RAWNSLEY - a Joseph WILSON and a Jane RAWNSLEY married in 1836) in the 1871. But where is he in 1891 ... Especially as in the IGI there's the baptism of a Fred Rawnsley WILSON in 1889, and of a little Tiras WILSON in 1891 (both in Manningham, parents Tiras and Cora), and the birth of little Tiras in Bradford is in FreeBMD.

Just one other thing - I wonder whether old newspapers might have anything? The marriage of John Wilson BENN? The death of Samuel BENN?

Cheers,
Judy
         

         
18 November 05

The library at Bradford have local newspapers on micro fiche Bradford Argus, Telegraph and Argus, Yorkshire Post, Shipley whatever etc. Personally I haven't found many of my pre 1900 BMD's recorded but you could get lucky. One thing that is very useful is the inclusion of a photo (where available) of all the local servicemen killed in WW1. So If you have a death and a date get on down there. The FHS also have details of servicemen on a card index file so even if you don't know the date it can easily be found. Digressing a little I have recently found the grave of some of my Lightowler ancestors in Halifax and my Great Grandfather Henry died on Armistice day 1918. There is a question there because his name is not on the Debt of Honour site, however, on the headstone there is the inscription 'Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends'. He was supposed to be a councillor at the time. That has to be the next death cert. I send for, If I can find the reference.

Regards for now
Dave      

[Valda]

28 November 05

Hello All I had stalled, but have got back on the trail today. I have had a look on the national archive site and it seems the records I want to check for John William Wilson's militia records are WO96, described as War Office Militia Attestation Papers - 1806-1915 These records are attestation forms from the War Office which were filled in at recruitment and, in most cases, annotated to the date of discharge to form a record of service. They include the date and place of birth. Re Samuel Benn A couple of weeks ago, I stopped off the M62 and went to the area in Bradford where Reevy Hall used to be, following Dave's directions. It is high up on the hill tops, still quite rural, just one road really with houses on. I did find a small cluster of old houses, otherwise they are all 20th century. I should think it was quite an isolated place back in the 1850s.I then went from there about a mile or so to 77 Kingswood Street. This road is still as it was, three storey back to back houses - numbers 61 and 65 on the front, 63 and 67 round the back, through a passage. Unfortunately the last few houses that would have included number 77 had been knocked down and new houses built there, probably in the last few years. Grrrr. But it was good to be there and to think that Margaret, Ruth, Ann etc would have lived there and walked out on the same street. I imagined them leaving to go off and get married from there. It too is high up in the hills but much more developed. I should think Elizabeth wanted to leave the remote Reevy Hall once Samuel had left her, to go somewhere a bit more civilised.

I have two options now, I can go over to Bradford sometime, to the reference library, which will not be until the new year as I have no leave left. Or I can write to the BodKin - the family history magazine of the Bradford FHS that I belong to, and see if any other reader can help. Or of course I can do both. I will definitely find out about the poor law in Bradford. Re Tiras WilsonValda wrote this on 22nd September WILSON, Tiras 1888 June Marriages Bradford Walker, Cora 1888 June Marriages Bradford or BENTHAM, Maud Marian 1888 June Marriages Bradford On FreeBMD these are the only Tiras events for Bradford - all Wilsons Wilson, Tiras 1857 June Deaths Bradford WILSON, Tiras 1888 June Marriages Bradford Wilson, Tiras 1891 September Births Bradford You would think finding Tiras, as a Wilson or anything else would be a piece of cake on the 1891 or 1901 censuses but it isn't. He could of course just been missed off the 1871 census - I can't find a Tiras on that either. His age could be wrong on the 1881 census (its actually given as 13 not 15) but can't be out to far as he is down as employed by father. No problem finding Robert on the 1861 census in Wapping Road Bradford - wirer, with widowed mother Jane (maybe husband was Tiras?) and sister Harriet. Can't of course find Ellen/Nelly/Nellie or even Helen born Kirkheaton/Yeadon or somewhere else because I can't find a marriage for her, so I don't know who she is. It also makes finding her on the 1901 census, presuming she hasn't remarried or died as Nelly/Nellie/Ellen etc more tricky. However I can't see her under any surname variation and that's where I stopped previously. However I've made a new stab at Tiras and found him and wife Cora on the 1920 and 1930 censuses for Connecticut U.S. with an emigration date of circa 1890/1, with son Fred R. born England not quite sure of age. I also found what looks to be them on the 1900 census, son Frederick aged 11. Which deadends Tiras for Scarborough and opens up the possibility (I can't find any emigration records for the family) that he took Nellie and John with him to America.

On the plus side Tiras remains a possibility as an adopted child. I like the idea of Nellie moving to Scarborough to a rest home, or whatever it is, to be near her John. The head on the census I note was a Lady Superintendent of Home. Incidentally Daisy Kate Hilton was working in a sanitorium when she married JWB. It was a spa town and lots of people went there for their health. Maybe Nellie was in a similar sort of place? Came to take the waters? I will try to find out where I can look at Scarborough newspapers - I can see some annual leave coming up in the new year

Best wishes
Louise

[Valda]

29 November 05

Tiras is with his grandparents on the 1871 censusRG10 4459 folio 8081 Fulbest? Street Bradford Yorkshire Joseph Wilson 55 Bramley, Yorkshire, Head Married MasonJane Wilson 55 Idle, Yorkshire, Wife Married Amos Wilson 31 Idle, Yorkshire, Son Married Labourer Mary Wilson 21 Bolton, Yorkshire, Wife Married Worsted weaver Tiras Wilson 3 Bradford, Yorkshire, Grandson Janes isn't widowed on the 1861 census - she gives her status as married - no idea where husband Joseph was. (In 1851 the family were at Providence Street Bradford).There is no reason to suspect Tiras was adopted. I suppose if you wanted Ellen's maiden name the easiest but more expensive way is to check 1837online for Tiras' birth and order the certificate. I checked the first three Militia Attestation papers I hold for the same period - late C19th. Two didn't give next of kin, one did. All gave addresses.

Regards
Valda
         
   
      
29 November 05

Hi Louise, It must have been great actually seeing all those places! Re Tiras all Census transcriptions are Crown Copyright)  We did subsequently (17 Nov 2005) find Tiras or Siras (could be a 'T' or an 'S' - transcribed as Siras) WILSON in 1871 - with his grandparents Joseph and Jane in Bradford grandson, right age (3), and right birthplace (Bradford).However, Joseph &amp Jane's son Amos, 31, and wife Mary were also in the household so was Tiras their son, or was he the son of Robert R and Nelly? There is the death of an Amos WILSON, age 36, in Bradford in 1876 on FreeBMD also deaths of some Mary WILSONs of a possible age ...1836 Joseph WILSON m Jane RAWNSLEY, 7 Mar 1836, Bradford 1851 HO107/2307 Providence Street, Bradford WILSON Joseph, Head, 34, Stone Mason, b Bradford Do Jane, Wife, 34, b Idle Do Harriet, 17, Power Loom Weaver Worsted, b Idle Do Amos, 13, Working in ?, b IdleDo James, 11, Grocer Boy, b IdleDo Robert R, 8, Scholar, b Idle ILES John, Unm, 21, Wool Comber, b Oxfordshire ?1861 RG9/3320WILSON Jane, Head, Mar, 44, b Idle Do Harriet, Daur, Unm, 27, Worsted Weaver, b Idle Do Robert, Son, Unm, 18, Wirer, b Idle DAWSON William, Boarder, Unm, 18, Apprentice to appraiser, b Idle Where was Joseph? And Amos? And also James (if he survived)?1871  RG10/445981 Filbert St, Bradford WILSON Joseph, Head, 55, Mason, b Bramley Do Jane, Wife, 55, b Idle Do Amos, Son, 31, Laborer, b Idle Do Mary, Wife, 21, Worsted Weaver, b Bolton Do Tiras or Siras, Grandson, 3, b Bradford 1871 RG10/4460 Lincoln's Arms, 52 North Wing WILSON Robert R, Head, 29, Beerseller and Lamplighter, b Idle Do Ellen, Mar, 29, b Yeadon INMAN John, Boarder, Unm, 35, Labr, b Bradford? TURPIN James, Boarder, Unm, 21, Wherry Man, b ?HeatonI have puzzled over Ellen's birthplace and that of Boarder James - both seem to start with exactly the same letter which I see as a 'Y' but then Boarder James's one goes on with a further part which turns it into an 'H'1881 RG11/4464105 Church St, Manningham WILSON Robt. R WILSON, Head, 38, b Idle, Sewing Machine Repairer Do Nelly, Wife, 38, b Kirkheaton, Silk Weaver Do Tiras, Son, 13, b Bradford, employed by father Do Jane, Mother, 65, b Idle

Here's an Ellis Island record SS Campania sailed from Liverpool, Oct 1 1898, arrived New York Oct 7 1898.Cora WILSON, 30, Married, Housewife, American Citizen, b Bradford, in the US in 1898 in Connecticut, Going Home Fred WILSON, 10, American Citizen, b Bradford, Going Home Syrus WILSON, 7, American Citizen, b Bradford, Going Home I can't see their initial arrival but that might be because they arrived just before the records started i.e. between the baptism of Tiras (or whatever his name was!) in Jul 1891 in Manningham and 1892 when the Ellis Is records began. But where are they in the 1891 census!

JAP

Fred might be 4yo Fred WILSON, b Bradford, in 1891 in Bowling, Nephew of Harry FIELDHOUSE, Editor of the Bradford Mercury, and his Wife Mary (both aged 25). There's a marriage on FreeBMD in Dec 1887 in Huddersfield of a Harry FIELDHOUSE on the same page there's a Mary WILSON.

[Valda]

29 November 05

1861 census RG9 3048 folio 28Rake Blatchinworth with Calderbrook Lancashire Joseph Wilson 44 Bromby, Yorkshire, Lodger Married Stone mason James Wilson 23 Bradford, Yorkshire, Lodger Stone mason no Amos but most likely marriage for him Amos Wilson December 1867Mary Ann Shepherd Volume 9b page 72The other Tiras Wilson who dies in 1857 is I think in Bramley in 1851 the son of James Wilson stone mason aged 42. Definitely this time written by the census enumerator as Siras. FreeBMD's marriage coverage

 graphshttp//freebmd.rootsweb.com/progressM.shtml

give you a clear indication where Robert's marriage must be in the 1860s if he married 'Ellen' and used his distinctive middle name.

Regards
Valda
         
         
29 November 05

Hi all, Valda, good find of the likely Joseph and John - but Amos, as you say, still AWOL. Some of the following matters look quite peripheral but one never knows ...If they were my people, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be spending money on certificates but there are things that it would be nice to know! For instance1. the birth cert of Tiras WILSON b ca 1868 Bradford might be of interest. If he actually wasn't the son of Robert Rawnsley WILSON and Ellen/Nelly, perhaps they didn't ever have any children - just two 'adopted' sons, Tiras and John (we did find another John WILSON b &amp d before 1861 but we have no idea who his parents were as far as I can remember).2. the marriage cert of Robert Rawnsley WILSON and Ellen/Nelly (assuming they weren't the parents of Tiras - if they were, the maiden name of Ellen/Nelly would already have been revealed by 1 above) migh tbe of interest depending on her maiden surname! It is maddening that it costs so much to find out things which probably aren't worth finding out! As for not being able to find Tiras and Cora in 1891 (and little Fred unless he is the 4yo nephew which seems likely).

I could understand if Tiras had gone to 'suss' out the situation in the USA but Cora surely had to be in Yorkshire if the birthplace (Bradford) of both Fred and 'Syrus' on the 1898 Ellis Is record is correct, and if the baptismal records for them were correct (both in Manningham - Fred in Apr 1889, and Tiras in Jul 1891). Unless Cora was (before the start of the Ellis Is records) going back and forth like a yoyo between Bradford and the US ...However, there's one thing I think I would be doing Louise - given that Valda has found next of kin recorded on some Attestation Papers, I think I'd be following up on those for John W BENN (or however he was recorded). After all John Wilson BENN/John William BENN/John WILSON is the central character in this drama.

JAP
         
   
      
20 December 05

Hello All It is so frustrating that I cannot now do anything without a few trips round the country that I cannot take until the new year. However, in the meantime, I did notice this link on this site to another Siras Wilson, the one mentioned above by Valda I think, from Bramley in Leeds - not a very long way away. There are quite a few Cyrus Wilsons on Google, I never thought to spell it that way.

http//www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=0270736954914ae31e9c1f8fcd43b257&amptopic=64727.msg263506

I promise I won’t be going away and you will hear from me again, John W and Samuel, Eliza and JDL, they all need our input.

Best wishes for a happy Christmas
Louise

[Valda]

23 December 05

What odds would you give me on the fact that the two years that FreeBMD have not yet covered for birth registrations are1. 1868 when Tiras/Siras/Cyrus was born and 2. 1881 when John William/Wilson Benn was born. So at the moment I cannot trace Tiras' certificate, even if I wanted to and cannot look for any other John (William) Wilson births with a mother Ellen/Nellie either. Still, I have waited 20 years, a bit longer won’t hurt - perhaps I can find some indexes to view when I go to Bradford library in the new year.

Best wishes
Louise
         
   
      
23 December 05

You could try requesting a look up on 1837 online or use the searchable database here

https//www.familyrelatives.org/treequest/jsp/customer/index.jsp

there is a charge though.

Regards
Valda
   
      
         
23 December 05

Louise, Just a quick thought - Even though the years you mention haven't been transcribed by FreeBMD, they do have images for all quarters available for 1868 births (but only the December quarter for 1881). Maybe worth a quick check?

http//images.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/choose.pl

Martin
      
   
         
30 December 05

Valda and Martin I took both of your advicee I searched the images, a very interesting pastime and I am very pleased to have learnt about the option, now when I have time I can crawl all over the Wilsons for 1881 and see if there are any John W Wilson births. I did not find Tiras/Siras so followed Valda's advice and asked for a lookup on 1837.com Amazingly within a very short time someone called Kev came up with a birth registration for Tiras Wilson in December quarter 1867 in Bradford which I have now ordered. I am a bit disappointed in one way, because it means he is probably the natural child of Robert and Ellen, where we had hoped he might be adopted, but then again if his mother turns out to be nee Lister or nee Widdop or some other useful family name of mine, he could still be a key to the mystery. I have not yet asked for the 1881 look up as I want to try to find John William Wilson/Benn myself - I feel so guilty when I ask someone else to spend their own money on my family.

Heartfelt best wishes as always
Louise

[Valda]

January 06

Just when you thought it was safe to concentrate on your own family tree.....(Cue the music from Jaws.......)I have got the birth certificate of Tiras Wilson. He was born 24th September 1867 at 163 Wapping Road, Bradford. He was the son of Robert Rawnsley Wilson and Nelly Wilson formerly Beevers. Nelly set her mark on the certificate as the informant. There is nothing else to learn from this certificate. I have done a cursory search for Nelly Beevers to no effect. I do know that there is a Councillor in Slaithwaite today called Gordon Beever, so there is or there are shades of this name in the vicinity. I have continued to search for the birth of a John Wilson to these parents in 1881 to no avail. I continue to believe that these parents remain a good bet for the adopted parents of my JWB although there remains no proof. I remembered today that my Uncle Jim (technically my father's Uncle, not mine) had either the first name or the second name of Frederick, which is the name of Tiras' son. This may or may not be a coincidence.

I have tried to find an association between Beevers and Benn or Lister but so far to no avail. I will be very interested to learn what you make of this, you do know that I am never going to stop gnawing this bone until we have teased out all of the bone marrow that we can find.

Best wishes
Louise
      

   
29 January 06

Not sure whether this will help 1851 census HO107 2307 folio 4013 Craven Street Bradford Yorkshire Henry Beavers 36 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, Head Married Weaver Fancy Sarah Beavers 32 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, Wife Married Thomas Beavers 11 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, Son Nelley Beavers 9 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, Daughter Sam Beavers 7 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, Son Joseph Beavers 6 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, Son Adam Beavers 3 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, Son  Amas Beavers 1 Bradford, Yorkshire, Son 1861 census RG9 3321 folio 51367 Bolton Road Bradford Yorkshire Ellen Beavers 19 Kirkeaton, Yorkshire, Lodger Worsted spinner in mill Lodging aloneI can't find the rest of the family on the 1861 census.
1871 census RG10 4461 folio 56 Craven Street Bradford Yorkshire Sarah Beavers 52 Kirkheaton Head Widow Amos Beavers 21 Bradford, Yorkshire, Son At Dye works Albert Beavers 12 Bradford, Yorkshire, Son Factory Hand Mary Jane Beavers 8 Bradford, Yorkshire, Daughter Adam Beavers was married to a woman born in Hartlepool and Samuel Beavers was with wife Mary who was born in Bradford circa 1847. Both men living in the Craven Street area. There was a Joseph Beavers of about the right age claiming a birthplace of Huddersfield. He was married to Sarah (Elizabeth nee Smith) born Bradford circa 1847. I can't see Thomas. This might make it worse but if it was the right Nelly it might help explain why the marriage between Robert Wilson and Nelly is so elusive. I can't see another Ellen/Nelly in the Bradford area on the 1861 census and I can't find a Nelly Pearson or Webster in Bradford on the 1871 census (haven't looked for an Ellen).From FreeBMD Marriages Dec 1865Beavers Nelly  Bradford, Yk 9b 116 Pearson Job  Bradford Yk. 9b 116 or Webster Thomas  Bradford, Yk. 9b 116

Regards
Valda