19th Century German gypsy!

[Romany Knaves]

Hi Again,

This may or may not be of interest, German Gypsies liked to play the Hackbut or Cobza which was struck with bells,there was a popular song that the german Gypsies sang:

Garder Wela! Garder Stela! Ab Miro tschabo ste!
I tarni romni dschalo,Mangel;I puri romni balo pop Priesterwela,
I tarni romni har i rosa,I puri romni har i dschamba,
I tarni romni weli tarno rom,I puri romni weli puro rom,
Woher komnt er,Woher springt er,Auf mein sohn und spring!
Die junge Frau geht,betteln geht bettelt,Die alte Frau hinterm ofen riestert,
Die junge Frau gleich einer Rose,Die alte Frau krigt einen alten Mann.

taken from "Through Romany Songland by Laura Alexandrine Smith"

[Briagh]

Good afternoon RootsChatters

I'm finding this topic particularly interesting as it may help to uncover a secret that a relatives family have been keeping. They have three generations of women who are very obviously of Deutch swartz descent but the subject is never discussed. I know that one of them, the middle generation, has suffered all her life for being 'different' and her own daughter was born with the gene. It may well go back to the beginning of the 20th century as described in the postings.
Does anyone know if the Scottish family Reid are linked to this heritage? it is a very sensitive subject as you can imagine and another relative linked to the family is trying to unravel some details about their past history.

Thanks

Briagh

[tricia Lemmer]

My Ancestor was Casper Lemmer's brother Heinrich who was one of the travelling musicians, and who also married and settled in London.  Thanks for all this useful info about the family.  Maybe the info I have about Heinrich will shed some light too - its all on Ancestry.com.  Heinrich (Henry) Lemmer became a hairdresser, working and living at 140 Portnall Road, W1. 

[tricia Lemmer]

Forgot to say, I was particularly interested in the bit where you mention an ancestor was 'dark skinned'.  Did you mean black or just had dark colouring??

[Buttonphobic]

Hi Tricia
Thanks for replying. Haven't done any researching for a while but when I restart I'll take a look at Henry and co on Ancestor, if I remember how to. By dark skinned I mean tanned.  We look very Italian or Romanian looking. If this didn't apply to Henry, it might mean the colouring has come from someone later marrying into my line.
Do you know anything more about The brothers German ancestor?
Regards
Mark

[tricia Lemmer]

We are very Italian looking and have Thalassaemia (Mediterranean Anaemia) which clearly indicates some blood from there.  My grandma used to say "we have Corsican cousins" but I never knew where they came from. 

[rob g]

Hi. Just noticed your posts. There where lots of German Romany. Which are sinte. Clan.  Who came to Britain. In 19th century. Some would have been musically talented.  They tended to sell pots etc. And had larger living wagons.  There are lots of photos on internet sites. Liverpool uni. has some good ones. But most were hawkers. Dealers. In various items. There are many trades gypsies did. All recognizable. Not many music related. Or generic. I.e. cabinet maker. Spinner. Etc. There are many dark skinned Romany folks.But  Also fair skinned. Large genes pool. Picked up travelling around. Asia.Europe. so not allways a sign of ethnicity being dark. Skinned. Except for the Roma. Eastern Europe gypsies. In British Romany folks we are nearly all Rom clan/ tribe. I can trace my own family in records back to 16th century. But we have a great oral records. We know who we are.  By the way.There are Reid's in Scots travelling folks. I have lots of replies. In my posts with info. Feel free to search. We are a secretive people. Had to be. So hidden ethnicity is common. Not much but it all adds up.  Keep looking. Cushty bocht. Good luck.Rob

[Skoosh]

German gypsies were the cause of a spying scare on the Cromarty Firth before the Great War, the fleet was anchored off Invergordon and the "Polis" diverted their caravans away from the naval base.

Skoosh.

[Romany Knaves]

The sinti are a Romany tribe that had originally called themselves Manouches or Manus which in Romany simply means Human Being and for reasons unsure in the early 1700's they started to call themselves Sinti perhaps to distance themselves from other Romany tribes as they had no formal Romany tongue but spoke another known as Abrussese but they did refer to it as Romanes meaning in a Romany Way, they do not use the term Rom to describe themselves or a Romany man but they do refer to other Romany tribes as Sinti Rom, the term Sinti started in Germanic speaking lands in central Europe but other Romany tribes across Hungry, in Serbia, in Russia, and also Spain, in France they usually referred to themselves as Manouches but some now use the term Sinti, the Sinti share the modern Romany Flag that some Romany tribes such as the Kalderasa also known as Kale do not recognise  and some Kaderash tribes do not consider the Sinti to be Romany at all as they do not adhere to any Romany Lore, it has been suggested that the term is derived from Sindi in India as far back as the early 1800's but many historians have dismissed this, though some of their Tales are set in the Sind,,,