another Devon geography question

[JaneyCanuck]

Sort of.

The Cornwall OPC database shows the marriage of what I am sure are my grx3 grandparents, in St Columb Minor, Cornwall. (When one of them is named Hill, it's hard to be sure.) The couple had children in Devon, but the bride was from that or some other area of Cornwall, I'm pretty sure. I'd had no idea about the groom's place of origin before seeing the marriage record transcription.

After marrying, they had children in Tamerton Foliot, Devon. Then their son's children were born in Stoke Damerel and the Linkinhorne area of Cornwall (the bride in that couple was also from Cornwall).

Apparently the couple who married in St Columb Minor circa 1815 didn't survive to a census, so I have no other source to check for their origin.

The marriage record gives the groom's residence as Alphington, Devon.

I have had little luck identifying other Hills in/from Alphington in the censuses who might be connected, just on some quick searches so far. But in doing those searches, I discovered there is also a  place in Devon called Alvington, generally West Alvington (or, as transcribed by Ancestry in 1841, Alwington and West Allington).

(edit - urgh, I've just realized Alwington is a whole nother place that I think I can probably discount as not likely phonetically confused - and of course it's the only one of these with an OPC!
http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/OPCproject.html#Listing)

Alphington is on the southern fringe of Exeter, and Alvington a few miles farther south.

My question:

Is it likely that a parish clerk in St Columb Minor in Cornwall, recording the marriage of an undoubtedly illiterate person from that far away, circa 1815, might have mistaken one for the other? Or would a person from Alvington have specified the "West", for example?

I just wanted opinions on this before I devote too much time to messing with what might be the wrong place.

Thanks!

[KGarrad]

I think Alphington is correct?

1861 census has Elizabeth & Francis Hill born in Alphington, and an Elias Hill living there.

1851 census has 8 Hills living there, and 6 people born there.

1841 census shows 2 people living there.

So, it would appear that some people called Hill have lived in Alphington for some time?

[JaneyCanuck]

Thanks for that! My problem you see is that there are also Hills in West Alvington. (Of course my real problem is that there are Hlls ev-ry-where!)

By 1851 when places of birth show there are few people left with DOBs before 1790, but sure enough there's a 1799er born and living in West Alvington too.

I see Elias in Alphington in 1861, born in Exeter (which is almost the same thing I guess). Anc'y won't show me Francis and Elizabeth in 1861 no matter what I do, though, and they're possibly interesting. (I see an Elizabeth but her husband is Joseph born in Kenton.) When you get a minute (and no rush at all, I'm madly busy most of today) can you give me their years of birth, say, so I can try to trick Anc'y into showing them to me?

The Alphington baptisms up to 1837 are in the IGI, C05017-1, and my man isn't there, so Alphington might just have been his home base when he married and maybe he was really from Cornwall too, anyhow!

If Alphington is what was recorded when he married in Cornwall then that is probably what it was. I just wondered whether anybody local might know something like: "Oh, Alvington and Alphington, people mix them up all the time!" (or: No, you silly foreigner, nobody in Cornwall would ever make that mistake.)

(We have this problem in Canada with St. John's, Newfoundland, and St. John, New Brunswick, for instance. And then every time I hear of some backwoods-type event happening in Alberta, like people shooting cops and the like, I think:There's a place in Canada called Priddis? Who knew??)

[KGarrad]

FWIW, Cornwall-OPC-Database has the marriage, but dated 17th July 1817.
James Hill to Ann Hoare.

There are 20 Hill marriages in Cornwall, 1813-1817!

[KGarrad]

From 1861 census, FindMyPast.

Elizabeth Hill, age 52 (so born c1809), born Alphington, living St Thomas (Exeter, I presume?). RG09, 1392, 27, 2.

Frances Hill, female age 22 (so born c1839), born Alphington, living Cheltenham. Reference RG09, 1801, 112, 8
Ancestry have transcribed her place of birth as Atphington!

[JaneyCanuck]

Thanks KG! I'd originally found the marriage some years ago at the old familyhistoryonline site, before those parish records got sucked up by FindMyPast. Then just recently I looked it up in the Cornwall OPC database with that additional bit of data that hadn't been included in the older transcription: the Alphington residence for the groom.

(It matches because Hoare, and variants, was given as a middle name to the children of a couple named James and Ann Hill in Devon born in the years shortly after 1817 -- I was just being approximate with dates/time periods for the purpose of this general question. And from more poking around I did at the time, it seemed like Ann's family might have temporarily relocated to St Columb Minor from the area of Cornwall where their son ended up c1850 adjacent to what seemed to be a Hoare uncle's household.)

Thanks for the further info on those Hills there. I'll have to see whether I can figure out who they belong to in earlier generations.


And PS -- "There are 20 Hill marriages in Cornwall, 1813-1817!" -- you feel my pain! 
(and that's just the grooms; there are 12 brides as well)

[KGarrad]

Janey - have edited my previous post to add census references!

[JaneyCanuck]

Thanks! Yes, Elizabeth was the Hill by marriage only, husband Joseph not shown as born Alphington.

And ah yes, Frances daughter of the Harcourt Hill, whom I'd seen and looked into. She is a fluke in the family and two generations younger than my guy -- but in any event her Hill father was born c1808 in Brighton, wife born in Dulwich, and in 1841 he was "Ind" and they were in Dorset -- in 1861 he was a retired army lieutenant and they came complete with lady's maid, footman, etc. But no actual connection with Devon.

You see what I mean -- anybody living there wasn't born there, anybody born there is too flukey or too young to give me any clues (unless I'm able to trace any of the younger ones back through baptism records or such, which I'll be getting to ...)

I think James was just peripatetic. No apparent connection with Tamerton Foliot where the kids were born after the marriage in St Columb Minor, and my hunch is Ann had died by 1841 and he was in Cornwall and then expired before the next census.

Bad enough that they were Hills, but that they should have left so little in the way of breadcrumbs ... and then of course there's the possibility that his son wasn't my real paternal ancestor in that line anyhow ... which the scrapings my uncle is taking from his cheek this very week may establish, at least!

[JaneyCanuck]

If I can just make sure, on my original question, if anyone else local to the areas has any thoughts:

A parish clerk in St Columb Minor, Cornwall, circa 1815, who recorded a groom's residence as "Alphington" would pretty certainly have heard and meant to write Alphington, and not (West) Alvington for example?

(It's just that I've seen how confused officials could be about place names outside their regions, e.g. St Ive being recorded as "St Ives" by a census enumerator in another county, etc.)