William Thomas born St Issells 1788

[axecalibre]

Wonder of some kind RC could help with parents of

William Thomas born 16 October 1788 St Issells, died Elford Staffs 1855

Married 22 August 1793, St Mary's, Bridgwater

Hannah Tutton born 3 February 1793, died 14 November 1849 Bridgwater

My grandfather was their son Richard Thomas, he had four sisters.  I have traced Richard and his sisters but cannot find any information on Their father William and mother Hannah.

[jonm]

I have checked my transcription of the St Issells baptism register and then compared with the Findmypast online index/copies too. Both show the baptism of a William Thomas on 17/10/1788, father's name William. No mother's name shown, not unusual for the St Issells register at this time. To be baptised 1 day after birth is a tad surprising - was the baby not expected to survive?

Bearing in mind that Thomas was a common surname around this coalmining parish at the time, I looked for other baptisms with William as a father to see if there was an obvious mother's name too. There are no later baptisms until 1802 and 1x in 1782 to William/Mary, a daughter called Anne. However, the St Issells register for the early 1780s is largely missing and, where available, unreliable. So, I am not sure I can draw any conclusions that William/Mary were the parents.

Not much to go on!

Jon

[axecalibre]

Thank you Jon for looking, yes I wondered about baptism day after birth either not expected to live as you say or maybe it was a Sunday!  The information you have given me fits in with other information I have found.  Unfortunately, as you say, with a surname like Thomas it is difficult to tie in parents, it looks as if the information is not out there.

axecalibre

[jonm]

Looking back at my notes, I should clarify something I said on my first post. That the mother's name is not included in the baptism register is unusual for this period. Still, I am not sure what you can make of this.

Jon

[axecalibre]

mmmm Jon, maybe cos she was still lying abed and her husband/mother took the baby to be baptised.  Was this in a C of E church or Welsh church?  However you would think the vicar would have known who the mother was!!

Guess this is one of those brick Walls that will never be knocked down

Many thanks

axecalibre

[Orielbenfro]

William Thomas born 16 October 1788 St Issells

Married 22 August 1793, St Mary's, Bridgwater

Hannah Tutton born 3 February 1793My grandfather was their son Richard Thomas, he had four

Please excuse my confusion, but if William Thomas was born in 1788 and Hannah Tutton was born in 1793, who was it that mrd at St Mary’s Bridgwater 22 Aug 1793, certainly not William & Hannah, or am I missing something.

There is no reference to a mrge of a William Thomas at St Issells pre 1788, so the best guess mrge, I can speculate is William Thomas to Margaret Evans in 1783 at Begelly or William Thomas to Elizabeth David also at Begelly in 1784.

Rgds
Orielbenfro

[axecalibre]

Oh Oriel so glad you spotted that!

Marriage was 1812, 22 August. 

Thank you for those suggestions, there is a Celtic Ancestry which suggests the following:

William Thomas b 16 October 1788 of Fferm Craig Begelly

father William born 1754 Fferm Craig, Begelly, died 30 October 1830 Castell Nedd, was married to Ann Phillips b1761.  I have, however, found out that there is a family bible which disputes the name of Williams wife.  Details also that William was agent to Lord Milford, in 1794 employed at colliery 12 miles up the vale of Neath.

Father of William b 1754, was Griffith Thomas b 1730 of Rock Farm, mother Elizabeth b abt 1730 Dyfed.

This is the end of the details.

My reason for posting was finding that the wife of William was not Ann Phillips, and I decided to check the details for real.

Jon, William b1788 became a publican census 1841, but on his son Richards christening in 1815 his occupation was mariner.  This family were the founders of Richard Thomas (& Baldwin).

I hope this is not too confusing... 

[Orielbenfro]

Totally unscientific speculation for your future reference ;

William Thomas mrd Ann Phillips at Tenby in 1770
William Thomas mrd Elizabeth Davies at Begelly in 1776

Griffith Thomas mrd Elizabeth Edward at Llanfallteg in 1748

Rgds
Orielbenfro

[jonm]

I have come across this topic before when I met the Celtic Genealogy man at NLW once by chance and we had a chat about this.

Firstly, (Golden) Rock Farm (aka Fferm Craig) is in Begelly parish, just to the north of Thomas Chapel hamlet. I query the baptism of William Thomas in St Issells parish as a result, which although not impossible, is unlikely. Maybe our speculation about the health of the baby comes into play here but Reynalton church was about half a mile away so, if Begelly church was out of action for any reason, would you in extremis traipse to St Issells 2-3 miles along difficult roads or Reynalton?

If you look at the Land Tax returns for Begelly parish, a Griffith Thomas is the occupier of Golden Rock in 1786. He was buried at Begelly 14/10/1786, his death due to breaking his back when he fell off a coal wagon (I have the references for these if you want them). The inquest was held at his widow's house (house not named), her name being Letitia Thomas, not Elizabeth as per your earlier post. "Widow" Thomas continues to occupy Rock until around 1791 (per Land Tax returns) when John Brace takes over the tenancy. A "Lettice" Thomas buried at Begelly 27/6/1793 - I'd speculate she is "Widow Thomas".

Does the family bible support this? As you probably know the Begelly registers do, with a keen eye, go back into the 1760s. The birth information however that you quote must come from this bible or another source.

Jon

PS. Where does 'Fferm Craig' come from??? No references to this name in the 18th or 19th century records of Rock Farm I have looked at. A later affectation?