The Will of Richard Berens, Esquire Mayfair Queen St.

[avm228]

ADDED  Jane's age should read 35, not 53, on above census

  It says 53 on the enumerator's schedule

[alpinecottage]

Do you think it's 53?  I think it's 33 (amended from original 35, sorry,  posts crossed)

[Acrossthepond]

Have you seen this pair?

1871 census: RG10/1146/20/33

11 Wilton St, Portsea, Hampshire

Jane MURRAY Head Wid 53 Cook birthplace Not Known
John do Son Unm 11 Scholar Richmond Surrey

I also saw that a few years ago and ordered her death certificate.  This Jane Murray was 74 when she died in 1892 (in Portsea).  This looked like a good match but John claimed his mother died when he was 12 and he was left an orphan... and a stable boy.

[alpinecottage]

It may help if you buy the death cert for Jane Murray, died in Wandsworth in 4 Q 1872.  That should give her status (widow, single, possibly dau of or widow of) and/or her occupation.  This may help to rule this Jane in or out of the picture.

[Acrossthepond]

It's an odd phrase, but I wonder whether it meant she was in service as a governess?

What happened to Jane later on - presumably she gave birth to a child who was your great grandparent? Can she be found in a later English census to ascertain an approx birthdate, or is there some reason such as emigration which prevents this?

Richard Berens was a bachelor until he died, with no children.

[Acrossthepond]

It may help if you buy the death cert for Jane Murray, died in Wandsworth in 4 Q 1872.  That should give her status (widow, single, possibly dau of or widow of) and/or her occupation.  This may help to rule this Jane in or out of the picture.

Do you think that because this Jane Murray died at the Workhouse, that they would have had any personal records on her to put on a death certificate?  Does anyone know if I could find Workhouse admission records, etc. for her and where?

[avm228]

I'd be a bit wary of discounting the Portsea Jane (b abt 1818) too readily. She's of an age with Jane Murray b abt 1819 Scotland in service in Richmond in 1851: HO107/1605/44/36. Perhaps John was separated from his mother by some means other than her death (e.g. being sent away to school?). I know he said he'd been a stable hand but he must have learned all those accomplishments somewhere!

[avm228]

Possible sighting of John in 1881 in cavalry barracks in Leeds? (Birthplace "St Mary London" could possibly be Richmond - parish church is St Mary Magdalene). RG11/4524/136/14.

Consistent with the horsey theme at least

[alpinecottage]

It may help if you buy the death cert for Jane Murray, died in Wandsworth in 4 Q 1872.  That should give her status (widow, single, possibly dau of or widow of) and/or her occupation.  This may help to rule this Jane in or out of the picture.

Do you think that because this Jane Murray died at the Workhouse, that they would have had any personal records on her to put on a death certificate?  Does anyone know if I could find Workhouse admission records, etc. for her and where?

Workhouses didn't just take anyone in, they wanted to be sure they were only spending money on "their own".  It depends how she was or who put her into the Workhouse/Infirmary whether they would have ever had any reliable records.