Wakefield Family on the family estate began by Dr. Albert Wakefield

[fruitytooty]

Yes Lisa there is a lot of Wakefield religious stuff to sort through! However I was curious since I read the info for Edward and I believe Mayflower194something posted about this family and she stems from Edward's sister Sarah. If I read the right info for your Edward and in your posts you say Edward left for America-but was his father DAvid Wakefield born on the family estate on the road to Ballinasloe and Aughrim in Galway county Connaught Province-I believe-Ireland and he did not leave? I did find some Thomas Wakefields in Griffiths Valuation for Ireland. Do you think Edward's father and possibly other siblings-maybe there were some not listed- stayed in Ireland? The only David Wakefield I found was for Townland: Castlestrange Parish: Fuerty and County: Roscommon in Giffiths Valuation at the Ireland roots site. I did find others at Galway library I just do not have notes here in front of me. But at Irelandroots I did find about 11 Wakefields for the county Galway. As I asked Mayflower with so many people being born on the Wakefield family estate it would need a village and there is one! I assume the people of the village were all related but you could be correct about Taum-and why would all the children stay where it is said they were born? Gee that would be a lot of families!good luck in your research and thanks for responding please keep me in mind I wish I could help more!fruitytooty

[Lisa in California]

When I first started researching, I talked to relatives and no one ever mentioned anything other than Jane Wakefield and Tuam.  Jane's parents weren't even mentioned.  I have no idea who would have said that Edward's father was David.  Perhaps it was one of Jane's siblings who believed this to be true.

Thank you for looking for David Wakefield.  I will continue to follow this thread.  Perhaps in the future  you or others might provide a clue with which I can help research your Wakefields.

[fruitytooty]

The 'parish Church' referred to in that article relates to the Established Church, or Church of Ireland.

just wondering about a phrase you mentioned earlier i.e. 'the Catholic rule' - doesn't make much sense to me....


S.

I wasn't going to address this anymore and continue my research into Irish history however I want to concerning some groups that were formed and the period the Wakefield Brothers got into trouble with "Catholic rule" David Wakefield would of "escaped" sometime around 1775-1783. While reading about Irish history I have ran across the Whiteboys, Orangemen, and Peep-O-Boys. From a easy source wikipedia-Early years for the Orangemen that was founded in 1796-1780's sectarian(this being Protestant and Catholic sectors) tension had been building until a boiling point in County Armagh-competition between them to rent patches of land near markets there. Much offence had lately been taken because of the Catholics in the general increase in wealth had raised the price of land by bidding high when it became vacant.  Here the number of Protestants and Catholics was almost equal in what was then Ireland's most populous county. I am sure it spilled over into other counties and especially amongst Agarian communities. The first major outbreak of the Whiteboys began in 1761. The wealth of the different classes might have something to do with references of high rent as a reason for leaving Ireland. But the beginnings of these groups that did clash has an early history. I have no clue on how to try and research the Wakefield Brother's you think they may of been part of one of these groups? And the Orangemen are compared with the Klu Klux Clan in America so it is something that existed and most Americans do not want that type of history even if it were true. Comments?Suggestions on where to look for Wakefield's in 1750-1783? I have gone to the normal places. At this site google Nebeker Family History-and you will see pictures and locations for the Wakefields from a visit to Ireland in the photo album or library at the site. Thanks for your input fruitytooty

[aghadowey]

And the Orangemen are compared with the Klu Klux Clan in America so it is something that existed and most Americans do not want that type of history even if it were true. Comments?

I have never heard of Orangemen being compared to the Klu Klax Klan and many people would find that remark highly offensive. Whilst it is true that religious and ploitical tension in Ireland goes back many years and for various causes you seem to be taking information from various sources and trying to make it fit your family story.

[fruitytooty]

And the Orangemen are compared with the Klu Klux Clan in America so it is something that existed and most Americans do not want that type of history even if it were true. Comments?

I have never heard of Orangemen being compared to the Klu Klax Klan and many people would find that remark highly offensive. Whilst it is true that religious and ploitical tension in Ireland goes back many years and for various causes you seem to be taking information from various sources and trying to make it fit your family story.

Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/orange_order and scroll down to Comparisons with Klu Klux Clan
And your remark that I "seem to be taking information from various sources and trying to make it fit your family story." Apparently the plot that the Wakefield Brothers were implicated in against Catholic rule has a basis somewhere. You have pointed this out to me-no Catholic rule. The only organizations and frictions I can find at this time in Irish history-1770-1783 are the beginnings of the Orangemen and Whiteboys. I believe I did send a pm because I do find it offensive but there are many with this type of history in their families but it doesn't mean not to look because it is possible. So other than make no guesses and there wasn't any Catholic rule what do you think the Wakefield brothers might of been involved with against Catholics in the years I mentioned? And I have other sites that do refer me to both of these organizations that are trying to make sense out of the trouble the Wakefields got into and looking at various aspects of Irish history. I have also found Wakefield Quakers in the Province of Connaught-from books-One is by Jane Marion Richardson Wakefield. This is even probable prior to converting to Methodism. These are areas to research. I believe I thought there was a Wakefield Village-and there is. William of Orange did grant land to the Wakefields-goggle search Nebeker Family History and you will find that there is information but no one seems to be able to find info on the Wakefields in the 1700.  There are currently Wakefields that is listed and pictures of Ireland are on the family site. The person currently residing there does not know how the land descends or the family history. But Wakefields are currently there. Filling in the info for the 1700's just might entail looking at alot of history that may not apply to my Wakefields and I do not know too many that would not agree that genealogy is like a detective searching for clues-well all I apparently have to go on is the Methodist John Wesley article and what is here in America and what was found in Ireland when on a visit. Thanks for your replies and if I offended you then I am sorry-sectarian violence isn't just religious it also includes racial sectarian sects. I am sorry. fruitytooty

[aghadowey]

The fact that 'Catholic rule' doesn't make sense has been brought up by several people in regard to your posts.

Whilst wikipedia is a valuable resource by its very nature it cannot always be considered reliable. Wikipedia itself has expressed concerns about the KKK reference to the Orange Order-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order

Comparisons with the Ku Klux Klan
An editor has expressed a concern that this article lends undue weight to certain ideas, incidents, controversies or matters relative to the article subject as a whole. Please help to create a more balanced presentation. Discuss and resolve this issue before removing this message. (December 2011)

[fruitytooty]

Yes that is in the article in Wikipedia. I believe a better way to look at this is they may have been part of one of the groups and this is what I said and I also stated that people would be offended and many do not want this to be a part of their family history. As you can see it stirs up feelings and people do not want to address them. Methodist, Presbyterians, Quakers were part of a group of Dissenters . The Treaty of Limmerick 1691 lowered their status and rights.  Added to the low status fammine also occurred and high rents. In the years 1775-1779 the American Revolution was taking place. The hositilites in America meant the House of Commons drafted Irish Troops and this need in America denuded the troops in Ireland so a volunteer movement began. In 1779-1782 Irish Nationalism was high-spurred on by the American Revolution. The native Irish threw in with the those of their colonial fellowcountrymen-those who had been granted land in Ireland by the British previously and colonized in Ireland (Wakefields from England)-and a united Ireland confronted Britian. This could easily be considered treason and a reason for being beheaded. This period between 1775 and 1782 is one of the most important facts in Irish history and led to the charter of Irish legislative independence. It is during this period that the Wakefield Brothers were implicated in a plot against the government and they could of been part of the group of volunteers who fought against the British. Their nephews continued the fight in the Rev Army after they emigrated to America. For whatever reason the records seem to be lost for the Wakefield family in Ireland. So all we have left is what is written here in America. Methodism and religious tolerance is seen by the many Wakefields who became ministers in Ireland and in America. David Wakefields son Jerimiah being one of the first in the area they settled in after leaving Ireland.
 I realize you are Irish and the American Wakefields really would like to understand the why concerning the Wakefield brothers. Without records you can only look to history to understand the actions or what drove them to escape by hiding and going to America. Thank you and I believe a break is in order.fruitytooty

[fruitytooty]

The church probably attended by the Wakefield family was the Urraghry Church of Ireland. Dr. Albert Wakefield may not be the emigrant from England to Ireland. It is possibly John Wakefield who settled around Ulster and his son Dr. Albert Wakefield in the Battle of Boyne in 1690 dressed a wound for King William III and in appreciation granted land to Dr. Albert Wakefield. In 1692 the home of Dr Albert Wakefield was 2 miles east of Aughrim, Galway, Ireland and part of Wakefield Village. However there is a sign in front of a house-that I thought was Alberts-at a family site for John Fleming Wakefield that shows the house and the sign in front reads "Robert Wakefield, Physician to King, born 1670, Aughrim, Galway, Ireland. Since there are no records just remenants of the old homes and village it is difficult to figure this out. But the name of the church is here-I assume the civil church-dual membership-and the location of the home. There are Wakefields currently living near by.fruitytooty

[fruitytooty]

I would like to add some information for the family of Dr. Albert Wakefield. In Homer Wakefield's Wakefield Memorial pages 213-215. He lists the info for the early history of the Wakefield Family from England to Ireland. "The first official record of a Wakefield in Ireland" I found in the same reference as listed on the page "The Irish Landed Gentry When Cromwell came to Ireland" by John O'Hart page 372-"10. The "Forty Nine" Officers  Inrolment of the Adjudications in favour of the 1649 Officers-Preserved in the Office of the chief Remembrancer of the Exchequer, Dublin-see Records of Ireland, Marked "1821-1825" pp. 610-637."  A listing follows for the men-on page 409-John Wakefield. From what I have read this land given was in the Ulster Plantation. From "Irish Pedigrees" by John O'Hart page 690 "10. Families in Ireland At The Close of the 17th Century" below this heading it reads "According to the MS Vols F.3, 23, F. 3, 27 and F. 4. 18, in Trinity College, Dublin, the families mentioned in this Section were among the principal families in Ireland at the close of the 17th century. The reader will find in each of those three Vols., much information in relation to the GENEALOGIES of the Anglo-Irish families who settled in Ireland since the English invasion, which are not given in this Work." On page 697Wakefield is listed. Does anyone know how to locate these genealogies?
I am assuming that John Wakefield, military chieftain, the father of Dr. Albert Wakefield was granted land-family history says and I believe the Wakefield Memorial also, this was in Ulster. Dr. Albert Wakefield may or may not of been born there-possibilty England and located to Ireland with his father. Dr. Albert Wakefield, "was a surgeon on the staff of William of Orange, when on his Irish invasion, and at the Battle of the Boyne, July 1, 1690, he dressed the wound of William with such skill, and so won his confidence and good will, that on the completion of the conquest at the battle of Aughrim, July 12, 1691, by William's request, an estate, comprising the site of the battleground, was granted him, and is now the property of the male line of descendants. Mr. David B. Pilch, of Jersey City, N.J., a descendant, has in his possession a piece of William's waistcoat that was saved by the surgeon and handed down to posterity as a memento of the historic occassion." Wakefield Memorial page 214
I assume that Dr. Albert Wakefield was with his father in Ulster-and served in the Army getting land and settling there from Ulster and his father John. Any info on how to obtain the genealogies mentioned above would be appreciated. Fruitytooty