ENGLAND, William b abt 1831, Trowbridge, Wiltshire

[teinesamoa]

You're welcome from us both I'm sure.. 

Just thought I'd add that Robert Foxall born 1838 in Ireland, who was in Kent in 1861, was in St Geo Hanover Sq in 1871 with his mother, a teacher of music but with her husband not present; Robert is shown as unmarried.

What an amzing sleuth you are! Thanks for this - the music connection clinches it, I think, as Rosalie and her daughter-in-law Ellen England, nee Pearman, were both singers. Cheers

[JaneyCanuck]

Can't resist poking ...

You'll find a Joshua England in London, born in Westbury, Wiltshire, who I imagine is a cousin of your Englands -- in 1841 he is with parents William and Elizabeth in Westbury.

In 1871, sister Sarah England, who was with your William in 1881, is with sister Jane Freeman (husband Richard), born c1834 in Trowbridge, in Kensington. Jane is one of the children in the 1841 household in Westbury. She married in 1859 in Kensington.

So that -- the sister Sarah who lives with different siblings in London -- does seem to clinch that household in Westbury as your William's family, his parents being John and Jane.

There are some posible baptisms to the couple at FS:

Mary 1818 Trowbridge:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NYH5-Y4T
George 1820 Trowbridge:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NR2T-FRL

This could be George's marriage:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NX91-9V5

Aha, and the music connection for Fanny. If only we could figure out what happened to her!

[teinesamoa]

slow down please - you're going fast than my head can process! You've managed to find more in the last day than I have in the past year! malo lava, as we say where I come from!

[JaneyCanuck]

I think I'm done. Don't like to spoil any fun! Just got William back to his parents and siblings, and he's all yours from there. And I thought having a William (father of Joshua) as a possible brother of your William's father John might help at some point.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_English_translation_of_the_Samoan_malo_lava

And g'day g'day, or salut! as they say where I'm at.

I was just going to mention one other thing ...
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J7DP-1XG
A female England birth to unnamed England parents, christening 1844, birth shown as Westbury and christening in Trowbridge, so the geographic connection is close.

[teinesamoa]

...
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_English_translation_of_the_Samoan_malo_lava

And g'day g'day, or salut! as they say where I'm at.

Thanks again - btw, malo lava also translates colloquially as well done indeed! Faafetai tele lava ma soifua

[keyboard86]

Hi going on the 1871 I do not think the Fanny who married Robert Foxhall is your one, as she appears to be aged 45 and born Yorkshire on Census Ref RG10/98/51/18

Keyboard86

[JaneyCanuck]

Ah, bien fait.

I forgot to mention -- in 1841, the name of Joshua's brother Alfred England in Westbury has been corrected from "Engling" at Anc'y -- you might find that the user who made the correction is a cousin (they didn't add any info about their connection, which always drives me nuts).

I might have been chasing a phantom Fanny England: there is a death for that name in Westbury reg dist in 1841, but no idea of the age.

I suspect that
Jane England died 1848 Melksham reg dist (covers Trowbridge)

And I wonder whether John remarried:
1851 in Trowbridge, John 57 born Bradford, a clothworker, and Mary 39
-- William father of Joshua was a cloth maker in 1841

I don't see another John England in 1841 to account for him, but I also don't see a marriage ...


Ah, KB86, you found Fanny, so yes, it seems I was chasing a phantom Fanny.

[teinesamoa]

Just a quick update. Thanks to you and other RootsChat posts I have confirmed John and Jane England (nee Mizen) as my William's parents, and the five siblings are correct. Father John was a cloth-worker also. It turns out that my William is actually a well-known stereoscopic photographer and some photography websites have quite a lot of biographical info not only on him, but on his sisters and brothers and offspring, many of whom were also involved in early photography.  This has absolutely made my day!

[JaneyCanuck]

Ah yes.

http://www.cartedevisite.co.uk/photographers-category/biographies/england-william/

We have reinvented the wheel.

One never knows whether to google first, or do the proper record-searching first -- but at least they converge.

A photographic history foundation in the US holds a carte de visite of my gr-grfather's sister, an actress, that I found by a simple google as well -- after all the hard slogging to figure out who my gr-grfather really was, and then finding he had a family ...

William's most famous pic was taken right here in Canada! or if not, from the other side of the Niagara River.

To be sure of Jane's name (there is no source given there), the birth certificate for Fanny, birth reg September quarter 1840 Westbury, would give it for certain.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_England
"Sources disagree on his date of birth, with dates from 1816 to 1830 quoted by different authors."
Well sheesh, they should have asked us!