BELLAMY of Plymouth - help needed!

[natp_70]

I'm really hoping someone out there can help me complete a critical part of the jigsaw!

I have a family tree relating to George Bellamy MD of Plymouth (1773-1863) and I need help connecting the middle section of the tree.  It may well be correct but I have no evidence.

This is what I have:

Edward Bellamy (died 1656 St Magnus the Martyr, London) = Mary Cole
Issue:
Edward Bellamy (died 1667 St Magnus the Martyr, London) = Mary Adis (sp?)
Issue:
Edward Bellamy (born 1657 St Magnus the Martyr, London) = unknown
Issue:
Joseph Bellamy (dates unknown; Merchant of Plymouth) = Garthred Mitchell (marriage took place 1707 Charles the Martyr, Devon)
Issue:
George Bellamy (1713-1798) = Mary Winefred Foster

So ... this is where I have a problem ...
I have the last Edward being born but then I lose him ... I don't know who or where he married, or his children (including Joseph (I think sometimes referred to as Josias)).  There was obviously a move from London to Plymouth at one point but whether that was Edward or Joseph, I don't know.

I desperately need the help of some more experienced genealogists than me on this puzzle.

All and any help very much appreciated!!!

Thank you in advance

[JaneyCanuck]

Haven't read through the thread again, but the background info could be useful?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,635044.0.html

[natp_70]

Thanks Janey 
It was actually me that posted the original post on that thread.  I now have the connection to Admiral Sir George Somers (its on the tree I've just mentioned), I am just trying to make clear connections through records from Edward to Joseph (Josias?) to George.  Everything on either side I have managed to find records for but not them 
Hoping someone out there can help

[JaneyCanuck]

At that distance, sometimes there is only guesswork if there are no records other than parish BMDs. Not even father's name was recorded for marriages, and mother's name was not usually recorded for baptisms.

FamilySearch shows a marriage that would be at just the right time: Oct 1679
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NKGM-2HS

Edward the III would have been 22, and his son Joseph/Josias then born between 1679 and 1685ish to marry in 1707 (oops, not 1807 as I originally typed).

That marriage was to Eliza Sutton at Saint James Dukes Place, London.
Searching within that batch, M02248-2, there were two other Bellamy marriages at the same place around the same time:
Thomas to Elizabeth Cesar, 1680
John to Mary Golding, 1680

There are maps showing the two parishes here:

St Magnus the Martyr
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/St_Magnus_the_Martyr_with_St_Margaret_New_Fish_Street_and_St_Michael_Crooked_Lane

St James Duke Place
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/St_James%27_Duke%27s_Place#1831_description

(StJDP is the little unlabelled bit of parish in the upper right corner of the map showing StMtheM in the lower left)

The IGI has these batches for marriages in StJDP (no baptisms or burials):
M022481     1700-1868     
M022482     1664-1682     
M022483     1682-1687     
M022484     1688-1691     
M022485     1692-1700

It has these batches for marriages in StMtheMandStMNFS (no baptisms before 1800, no burials):
M079041     1675-1754

but the only marriage it shows for the name Bellamy is
Elizabeth Belamy to Samuel Sanklen 1676

Since that is the period Edward III born 1657 would have married, maybe the marriage in StJDP is worth considering!


Oops, we're crossposting -- I know that was you, and it was me too.

Threads about the same family, wise to cross ref if starting a new thread.


PS -- if you've made the connection to Adm George Somers (who had no issue??), do you want to post that back in the original thread?
I just got a little invested in it and would be very curious to see the outcome!

[JaneyCanuck]

Searching at FS for children of Edward III and Eliza (whose name would likely not appear on baptisms) 1679-1700, there is this one:

Elizabeth Bellamy died 1688 StMtheM, father Edward Bellamy
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J8KK-1QZ

and then a baptism of Elizabeth Bellamy in 1699 in St Clements, Hastings, Sussex, with father Edward and mother Eliz/Elizth:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JMD5-X2C
that is more than likely not related, but you never know. (Actually FS shows 5 births in Hastings with father Edward, 1689-1701, three with mother Eliz/th, one with mother Ann and one with mother Mary.)

There is also a burial of a female "Casee", daughter of Edward Bellamy, in Stepney in 1723:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JZCZ-JQW
One might expect that Edward III had a son Edward IV, so perhaps a daughter of him.

There's a birth 1698 St James Wesminster of Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth (see the marriage I posted above), and death 1720 St Bodolph Aldgate that could well be the same person, Elizabeth Bellamy father Thomas.

For children of John and Mary, there is Charles Bellamy born 1686, died 1686 in St Martin in the Fields, Westminster.

So Thomas and John who may be children of Edward III 1657, who both married in StJDP in 1680, could have been still in the vicinity but in various nearby parishes.

I wonder whether the husband of Elizabeth Bellamy who married in 1676 in StMtheM was actually Samuel Sankey (a name my own tree is littered with). Elizabeth Sankey daughter of Saml Sankey died in StMtheM in 1683, and Samuel Sankey son of Samuel and Elizabeth was born there in 1680.

[JaneyCanuck]

So looking back at your other thread, you said:

"I have found the marriage of Josias and Garthread (Garshead) Mitchell on a local OPC (Online Parish Clerk) for Charles The Martyr in Plymouth"
[you note in this thread that it was 1707]

Have you found baptisms that confirm this is your Mr Bellamy, i.e. that he is the father of children in your known line?

I had suggested:

Josias Ballamy son of Daniell, 1680 Landrake
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=1425938
his father seems to have been a Danll. as well: buried 1677 Landrake with St. Erney
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1224267

This Josias has been definitely ruled out, then?

Note that on the 1707 marriage in Plymouth, the name seems to be Josias BALLAMY:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC9T-5MQ
and he apparently had a child by the same name:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC9T-5DV

For info from the other thread, the line down from Josias goes:

Josias Bellamy (dates unkown) married to Gathred Mitchell (dates uknown)
George (1713-1798) married to Mary Winnefred Forster (1712-1789)
George (1749-1804) and Mary Burrow (1749-1783)
George born 1773

I'm kind of doubtful about the London connection myself, and would think the Landrake Josias Ballamy is more likely.

Baptism of George BALLIMY 1713:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC9T-16P
Marriage of George BALLAMY to Mary Winifred Forster:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC9X-B7F
Burial of George BALLAMY 1798:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCSM-DV9

The George BELLAMY marriage to Mary Burrow in 1771 seems to be the first instance of that spelling in that line.

[natp_70]

Hi Janey

Thanks for all this - I'll start working my way through it.

The Josias/Garthred marriage is the one I'm talking about, yes.

And this is where things get confusing.  If Daniel is Josias' father, then that knocks the whole family tree out.  My understanding is that Josias is often interchanged with Joseph.  If that is the case, I have Josias/Joseph Bellamy (spelling varies Ballamy, Ballimy etc) born to Josias and Garthread in Charles the Martyr in 1709 and a George Bellamy born to them in 1713 ... this George Bellamy is definitely the one I want.  Travelling down the generations (at least for three of them) it seems family tradition to name the eldest son Joseph and the second son George.

So I'm pretty sure that Josias/Joseph is the right father ... but I'm expecting his father to be Edward and not Daniel.

Will definitely post the Admiral Somers connection on my other post for you!

And thank you for your help  any ideas, please let me know!

[JaneyCanuck]

I was adding and tweaking that last post as I went along, as I'm sure you'll see.

What is the source of the alleged connection with the line of Edwards of London?

If it's just somebody's family tree and they have no record of the birth of Jos to Edward III, it looks to me like it's just a classic example of somebody latching on to the first Bellamy of about the right age they happened to stumble on, and adopting him.

The spelling, location and age of the Josias from Landrake just makes him look like really the most likely candidate.

Remember that in Landrake there was just the one baptism to Daniell, but a series to Paul/l, starting with an earlier Josias in 1657.

Paul/l also had a son Paull in 1670. Plymouth & West Devon registers have
- burial of a Paul BALAMY in 1718
- marriage of a Paul BALLEMY in 1695 to Joan Cock

It does look like that clan came and went across the river, as we were chatting about earlier. Daniell father of Josias born 1680 could even have been an older son of Paull -- although the burial of Daniell BALLAMEY Sr in 1677 in Landrake suggests he was the father of both perhaps.

[natp_70]

Hi Janey

Sorry I've not been in touch for a while!!!

I've scoured as many records as I can find on line and even ordered some wills from the national archives and I've drawn a complete blank on the Edward/Josias connection.  I think you are right in that this was a tree pulled together by someone in the 1960s (as far as I can understand) and by all accounts not the most thorough of genealogists or honourable of individuals if the rumours are to be correct.

My instinct, like yours tells me that the route back is through the Ballamys in Cornwall ... so I started wading through parish records and lo and behold, look what turned up ...

Issue of Daniell and Ellenor Ballamy

1680 Josias (that'll be our fella hopefully) - Landrake
1686 Elizabeth - Landulph
1688 Samuel - Landulph
1691 Daniel - Landulph

and last but not least ...

1694 William - Charles Plymouth!

Looking on a map, Landulph is north of Landrake ... en route to Plymouth if you were taking the landbased route.  But those births at least give the family a connection to Plymouth (and indeed the right parish).

I am wondering if Paul is Daniell's brother or possibly uncle (brother to Daniell senior) ... over two generations, many of the names are mirrored in each family: Mary, Josias,John, William, Jane, Samuel, Elizabeth, Daniel - is this coincidence?  And perhaps there are others - there is a substantial gap between the birth of Josias in 1680 and his sister Elizabeth in 1688, though I've been unable to find any more births.

I think i've found Daniell's wife, Ellenor's, death in the St Andrew parish records in 1721, though I've had no luck finding Daniell's.

It's increasingly feeling more likely that my Ballamys have no connection to London (not at this stage anyway) - so the next challenge ... let's see how far back with can get with the Ballamys and can we find where Garthred (Gertude) came from?

Looking forward to some more of your insightful help!

You've been so amazingly helpful ... thank you so much!

Best wishes

Nat