1841 Census Districts for Llansainffraid, Montgomeryshire

[Stormybay]

Rather than add this to my previous question, it might be better to post this separately...

I have been searching for my Edwards ancestors in the Llansainffraid census as well as on the LDS site.   On Ancestry.com, I can find only Districts 1, 2, 5, 5a, 6, 6a.  Would anyone know if there were once Districts 3 and 4 which may have been destroyed?  I am trying to find William Edwards, born about 1833 to Thomas Edwards, but have had no success. 

Thank you

[Br1gau]

Hi Stormbay,

I don't think records have been lost, this apparently arbitrary numbering system occurs in many other counties/parishes. 

You don’t say who Thomas’ wife is in your post, or are you trying to find out?  Have you considered this entry for William Edwards? If the recorded ages are right, it looks to be three generations.

Llansantffraid, District 2
James Edwards 60, Farmer
Elizabeth Edwards 60
Elizabeth Edwards 20
Sarah Edwards 20
William Edwards 9
All born in County

Regards,
brigau

[Stormybay]

Hello Brigau
Sorry for taking so long to respond; I have been travelling and away from a computer.

I have found that record and I do believe it must be my family.  My theory is that Thomas was the son of James and that he, born about 1808, died and his son William was then raised by his grandfather.  No proof, of course.  But I did find a Thomas born and a Thomas died about 1836. 
thanks
Susan

[Br1gau]

Hi Susan,

This is the same farmhouse, Tyn yr Iwen, in 1851, now taken over by James Edwards and his wife, Frances, nee Edwards, (married Llanfyllin Dec qtr 1839 27 125).  His sister, Elizabeth appears in both census returns.  Sarah, Elizabeth & James are therefore all children of James and Elizabeth (both born ca 1780)

1851 census   Llansantffraid
District 4ab – page 26
Tyn yr Iwen

James Edwards   Head   35 Farmer of 70 acres emp. 1 man
Frances Edwards   Wife   38
Elizabeth Edwards   Dau   5
Elizabeth Edwards   Sis   32   Dressmaker
James Davies      Serv   14   Ag Lab, born Denbighshire
All others born Llansantffraid

[Stormybay]

I have been pondering your latest information, Brigau.  If this is the family, then this James was born about 1826 and Elizabeth born 1829.  So I am having trouble resolving that a son, Thomas, born 1808, died about 1833, was a brother.  The generations are overlapping.  My William was born 1833 - 1834.  I have to do more checking. 
What I am wondering is how the inheritance would have worked - seems to me that the eldest son would have been named James and so I am trying to sort out whether this James was a son or also a grandson.  Clearly I need more information.
But thank you for finding that record.
S

[Br1gau]

Ah, it’s all in the sums!    So far we have at Tyn yr Iwen in 1841 & 1851:

James Edwards b. ~1781, wife was Elizabeth, b. ~1781.  Both appear to have died before 1851.

Possible children were
James Edwards aged 35 in 1851 - b. ~1816
Elizabeth Edwards aged 20 in 1841 & 32 in 1851 - b. ~1819
Sarah Edwards aged 20 in 1841 - b. ~1821

Then you have Thomas Edwards, born ~1808, so with an approximate 13 year age gap it’s not impossible that Thomas and/or James William Edwards born 1833 fits into this family.  However without confirmation it’s all speculation; just thought it worth making a mental note of this family group until something more positive turns up.

The most confusing aspect of researching in Wales is that the old patronymic naming system was still sometimes in use into the early 1800s.  For example, on familysearch there is a Mary Edwards, born 1808 Llansantffraid with parents Edward Jones and Mary.  All there to tax your brain, and your patience!

brigau

modified to alter Thomas' son's name from James to William!

[Stormybay]

Duh, yes, the sums!  Of course...  My error, and then there is the issue of rounding out the ages for the 1841 census.  Sarah and Elizabeth probably a year or two apart. 
My William became a carter, married in Llanrhaidhr Ym Mochnant, moved to Reyton XI Towns to work on a farm and then to New Hall Farm in Chirk where he continued to work as a carter.  All of that is pretty clear, but if he was the grandson of James, I would like to ask him why he would have left behind an uncle with a farm in Llansainffraid. 
s