Suddenly my tree is wrong

[Glen in Tinsel Kni]

For a long tiime the IGI/Family search had a series of Baptisms for Ropsley for a couple but one record has changed (I had copy and pasted the original to my tree), I noticed it after looking on Lincstothe past and now it looks as if my tree is wrong right in the middle of my direct line as this record relates to my 2xgrt grandmother!!

Familysearch shows the following events, the amended record is shown at the end;

Page Goulson
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   16 Sep 1801   Ropsley, Lincoln, England
residence:      Ropsley, Lincoln, England
parents:   Joseph Goulson, Mary

Richard Goulson
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   10 Apr 1803   Ropsley, Lincoln, England
residence:      Ropsley, Lincoln, England
parents:   Joseph Goulson, Mary

Mary Goulson
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   06 Mar 1805   Ropsley, Lincoln, England
residence:      Ropsley, Lincoln, England
parents:   Joseph Goulson, Mary

Benjamin Goulson
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   28 Mar 1807   Ropsley, Lincoln, England
residence:      Ropsley, Lincoln, England
parents:   Joseph Goulson, Mary


Benjamin Goulson
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:    1807   ROPSLEY,LINCOLN,ENGLAND
death:   01 Apr 1807   
parents:   Joseph Goulson, Mary

Benjamin Goulson
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   07 Jan 1813   ROPSLEY,LINCOLN,ENGLAND
parents:   Joseph Goulson, Mary


Ann Goulson
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening:   16 Jul 1810   Ropsley, Lincoln, England
residence:      Ropsley, Lincoln, England
parents:   Joseph Goulson, Ann



There are others at Woolsthorpe for Joseph and Mary, 1808, 1816 and 1817 (the last one buried at Knipton, Leics in 1818) then further baptisms at Knipton in 1820, 1821 and 1823 to a Joseph and Mary. The latter two appear as witnesses on Ann's 1839 marriage cert and one is with her in the '41. I have several marriage certs for the names given and all, including Ann's, note father as Joseph, blacksmith.


The 1810 baptism of Ann is the only record of a baptism ito Joseph/Ann, I can't find a marriage for them or burials in the places where the remaining names are to be found. Is it an error in the register?

[Lynne EnZed]

Hi Glen

It could very well be an error in the register. The fact that the child's name is Ann may be an indication that the cleric lost concentration momentarily and entered the mother as Ann also.

Are you able to get a look-up from the actual parish registers somehow? You could check all the christenings and see if the occupation for Joseph and the abode are the same in all instances.

I actually could not find my ancestor on the IGI but had a Bible reference to her birth from someone else in the family so knew when she was likely to be christened in the 1780's. (I also had her burial details.) There was a possible candidate on the IGI several years earlier but obviously too old to be my relative. I contacted the local records office who did a look-up from the parish register and they confirmed the date was 1787 and not 1781 as on the IGI. The date in 1787 matched the birth record from the family Bible [and her age at death]. So it is possible it could even be a transcription error on the IGI.

There is a query service at familysearch so you might be able to see if they can check their records to confirm. [Not sure where on the site you do this but do recall reading it on their blog somewhere!?! Sorry!]

Hope this helps.

Kind regards and God bless you,
Lynne

[Glen in Tinsel Kni]

Lincstothepast have digitised the general registers held by the archives and put the images online, the site is playing up just now at my end, it's pretty clear the entry says Ann and the 1851 census gives her birth as 1811, Ropsley, Lincs.

I really don't know what to make of it, judging by the baptisms I have worked on for several years (which match a tree that's been a "work in progress" for more than 30 years) the family popped to Woolsthorpe in 1808, there is a baptism and burial there late March/early April 1808, then back to Ropsley again until sometime around 1820 when the events are happening in Leicestershire (Knipton). There are dozens of burials at Knipton and a few marriages, including Ann's marriage in 1839.

The names of the children don't follow the usual naming pattern the family use though there are girls named Mary and Ann so who knows how they decided this tine.

[Lynne EnZed]

Hi Glen

Have been to Lincstothepast, which is working fine for me at the moment, and Ann's mother is definitely given as Ann.

Unfortunately as it is an "original" source and not a transcription there is no way of determining how the error occurred - if indeed it is an error. The fact that there are no other children for Joseph and Ann and the children are consecutive in order of birth with no obvious overlaps that would indicate that it was biologically impossible for the birth of Ann to have been to Mary, so another couple had to be involved, then for now at least you could be looking at a clerical error. I would keep your tree as it is - until further information comes to light - but make a note of this discrepancy.

You mention naming patterns. Do you mean with your 2xG Grandmother Ann's own children? Does she have any Ann's or Mary's? While this is not always conclusive, especially if a lot of children were born and the couple may have named children after themselves, so Ann may have had daughters named Ann and Mary.

Sorry if it is not very helpful but I don't think there is a way to prove a clerical error in the register but you also mentioned that younger children of Joseph and Mary appear with Ann in the 1841 census record and on her marriage certificate as witnesses so you can probably take that as proof. Plus Ann's Dad was a blacksmith as was the stated occupation on the marriage certs of some of the other children of Joseph and Mary. I would go with clerical error in the register until proven otherwise! Still a bit frustrating though! 

Kind regards and God bless you,
Lynne

[Glen in Tinsel Kni]

In most cases they tended to go with names of grandparents and parents, sometimes swapping the order around but it went a bit awry on these two generations, they seemd to use pretty much all the names but dived between parental amd maternal lines more than other family groups. First child for Ann is a name than doesn't appear anywhere else in the tree until much later, but then again the same applies to her brother Valentine, the name just appears and then seems to vanish before coming back  again.

I'm just kicking myself for not seeing it before and still don't know why  I happened to look at it earlier.

[smudwhisk]

It is quite likely an error on the part of the parish clerk, especially if there is no other Joseph and Ann Goulson about in the area.  The fact that other children to Joseph and Mary are either with Ann on the 1841 Census or witness to her marriage tends to support the assumption that the parish clerk simply made a mistake when entering up her baptism.  It isn't that unusual a problem with parish registers, particularly in relation to the mother's name but I've also seen errors with father's names which have subsequently been proven the same person.  Even if there was another Joseph Goulson in the area, the fact Joseph is listed as a blacksmith on all marriages also supports the argument.  If they were both agricultural labourers, it would cast more doubt. 

Did Joseph leave a Will at all, as this may confirm Ann his daugther if it was written after her marriage?

As Lynne has already said, I'd go with the assumption that the clerk made a mistake.

Nicola

PS. Lincstothepast was playing up this morning, but thankfully was fixed quickly.

[Geoff-E]

An ancestor of mine at baptism was said to be the daughter of Arthur and Martha ARTHUR (really!) 

However a brother of hers, Arthur David ARTHUR, married the same day, same church, was the son of David ARTHUR.

When my ancestor married, her father was also David ARTHUR.

[LizzieW]

I couldn't find my gran's baptism for ages, but could find baptisms for her 5 siblings.  In the end, I looked at the parish records of the church the siblings before and after her were baptised and found that my gran, Mary Hannah, had been entered into the parish records as Seth, so not even the right sex.  Seth was, of course, her father's name.  I don't know what the parish clerk had been drinking when he did that entry.  And, of course, being only my gran's generation, albeit 1876, I knew there wasn't a Seth born to the family, or any of her aunts & uncles in the same month as she was.

[Marmalady]

Yes, mistakes happen.

In my husband's tree, his GG Grandmother's parents are given as Joshua & Ann. All her 9 siblings (both older and younger) have Joshua & Elizabeth as parents. I am sure this is a mistake as various of her children appear on different censuses as grandchild of Joshua & Elizabeth.

In my own tree, there is a death entry for Matilda age 6.  Matilda was actually 9 at that time and went on to marry and produce a family (she is my GG Grandmother) so this is obviously wrong. The age at death does match her younger sister Julia.

Presumably sometimes the registers were written up some time after the actual ceremony and the clerk involved just misremembered the actual names