thankyou both for your replies,much appreciated. my apologies for the wrong year it is abt 1790 . william and mary nee kilby were the parents of william at thurmaston. william at thurmaston did marry ann sibson and died at thurmaston in 1839. he was born in birstall in1798 . it is his father who died in birstall eight years earlier whose birth im looking for.carole i have his death record thats all. thankyou again carole and rambler.