Ruthin or Corwen?

[jones9]

Roger,

Thanks for your reply.

What do you mean by 'All entries are for sons to John Jones(shoemaker) and Margaret,Corwen' - which entries are these? Are those entries baptisms or burials?

I don't suppose you can find a Margaret Jones baptised around 1826 daughter of Thomas and Margaret. - I think if I find this record it will shed some light on his parents and place where he in turn was born. It's not Corwen or Chester or Carrog. Possibly Ruthin, but I suspect one of the smaller parishes in Corwen area?

[despair]

Sorry about the lack of clarity- it's getting late.All are baptisms,and,of course,one is a daughter.
I've just checked the 1841 census for Pen y Bryn Corwen.Although it's listed as Pen Bryn it looks like it might be an area rather than a specific address-there are 30 separate entries.

Regards
Roger

[jones9]

Thanks for you reply. Not to worry - I appreciate your help a lot!

It certainly seems possible that they were connected in some way. Hopefully the Margaret Jones' will I'm going to order a copy of will make any connection clearer. Looking through the parish booklet for Corwen, towards the end of the 18th century when occupations were recorded there are quite a number of shoemakers present! 4 or 5 families in fact.

On 11 nov 1792 there's a Thomas son of John and Elizabeth shoemaker. I have found amidst the Gwynedd records a land deed referring to Elizabeth widow of John, late of Corwen now of Chester in 1804 and mentions their eldest son John Maurice Jones. There's a burial in 1797 for John Jones of Rhagat and Chester so it appears unrelated as the John and Elizabeth in question were the people who bought the Rhagat estate and seems far too removed from shoemaking!

I wonder if all these Jones shoemakers in Corwen could be connected? I know there's a record of Ruthin shoemakers but nothing of the sort in Corwen that I've found.


What I need the most help with at the moment is tracking down Margaret's baptism in 1826 to Thomas and Margaret. The only likely so far is Ruthin nonconformist but doesn't add up if repeatedly on later censuses her birthplace is Corwen.

Thanks again for your detailed help!!!

[jones9]

One last thought. Has the1827 baptism for Margaret been transcribed correctly? If its Thomas instead of John it would fit perfectly.

[despair]

It looks like it is transcribed correctly.Perhaps he was John Thomas Jones.....
I will have another look later today.
Regards
Roger

[jones9]

Ok thanks probably unlikely.

Can you find any Margaret Jones b. ca. 1826 in that area to Thomas and Margaret? Thomas being a shoemaker or retired soldier possibly?

[despair]

I haven't found the record you are seeking so far but perhaps the following ties in a number of records for elimination:-
The non conformist record for 1824 looks like one of a family born to Thomas Jones and Margaret Evans-Elizabeth(1820),John(1822),Margaret(1824),Mary(1827).
There is a Corwen marriage of 1819 for Thomas Jones and Margaret Evans and I think it probable that Thomas dies in 1829 and it is his will as a shopkeeper in 1829.(the bond has an Edward Evans)
Further this death fits with a burial of Thomas(1792-1829) who therefore could be the son of Elizabeth and John (11th Nov 1792 "Corwen" transcribed under Llandrillo as per your post)
The balance of this family are probably at census refs
1841  1428  4/6  5
1851  2509  269  3
1861 4311  13  19

Perhaps also,John Jones the father of Thomas(1792) is the boot and shoemaker in the 1828-29 Pigot's directory.
All of this feels a bit like a mixture of non-conformist and established church but the fit is welln worth considering.
None of this relates to the Margaret Jones  will of 1826 as the Margaret(nee Evans) I believe lives until at least the 1850s

There is a non conformist record for a Margaret 1826 Ruthin on FamilySearch.I have looked at the Blackwell index and can't find it.Perhaps it is available on the non-conformist site:- www.bmdregisters.co.uk
This is a subscription site and I don't have access.

Regards
Roger

[jones9]

Roger thank you very much for your reply and research.

This does seem to be the same family yes, although unfortunately they're just another family to eliminate, unless the John Jones shoemaker is related to some way.

If the only other possible record is the 1826 birth in Ruthin then it would appear that the Ruthin connection is more likely than a Corwen one - however this still doesn't add up if the Margaret Jones would state her birthpalce as Corwen on all the censuses.
Do you know which year Thomas, son of John (shoemaker in Ruthin, d.1784) and Hannah, was born? Chester is a possibility which would tie in with the family's later connection, although there's not much weight behind this. I think perhaps he was born earlier in 1770s/1760s in Ruthin?

This is getting increasingly confusing! Perhaps there may be a baptism for Margaret in 1826 in Betws Gwerful Goch, Glydyfrdwy, Gwyddelwern or another smaller parish around Corwen/Ruthin - the Ruthin one is possible of course but doesn't fit in. Am I right in thinking that non-conformist records only began post-1800? If not then I may need to look in these to see if there's another Thomas Jones?

Many thanks,
Jones9

[despair]

Haven't been able to find the baptism of the son of John and Hannah yet.Just for the record the will was written in September 1780 and Hannah died in October.John died in 1782 and the will was proved in 1783.I'll try to have another look later tonight for a baptism.
I believe you're generally right about the non-conformist baptism records for this area.There are some from Denbighshire circa 1790,but nothing before 1800 for Merionethshire on that site.
I have the same feeling that Ruthin doesn't feel right.Unless there were other children the "pattern" of births is a little unusual(perhaps it was influenced by army postings?)There is a 15-20 year gap between Thomas/Elizabeth and Margaret who would then be born to an approx. 46 year old mother(I think she was born in 1782).Pigot's Directory for 1828-9 gives a Thomas Jones shoemaker in Chester,but whether he is the same person I can't tell.I've tried looking in the Chester area as well for Margaret but no luck so far.

Regards
Roger