Ruthin or Corwen?

[jones9]

I'm trying to work out if my ancestor was from Ruthin or Corwen.

The 1851 census has as the place of birth of one of my ancestors Corwen (died 1854), and that of his daughter in all the following censuses as Corwen too. His army record however has his place of birth as Ruthin. His burial record and the 1851 census estimate his birth at 1776; his army record and 1841 census estimate 1780.

There's a convincing record in 1776 Corwen, for Thomas Jones, although no mention of shoemaking. (His army record has his trade as Cordwainer, although as he joined the army either at 23 or 18, I think he may have developed this trade during his service? However he and his descendants were shoemakers) I notice on familysearch however that there are baptisms in Ruthin in 31 January 1781 and 9 May 1781 for Thomas Jones, so I wonder if anyone can look these up please?

But my main question is about Corwen/Ruthin - I am presuming that Ruthin being a bigger town was a more familiar name and so would have been preferable to Corwen in terms of explaining to a census enumerator where the place was - so if he was born there why would he choose Corwen? Same question applies to his army record! Then again it could always be a lesser-known smaller parish between the two places? I suppose it's a coincidence but the great-grandson of the Thomas in question married a woman from Corwen, which makes me suspect the family still had links to the area? - then again they were next door neighbours preceding their marriage so probably just a red herring?

Finally, I can't find any likely baptism records for his daughter Margaret born in 1826 (daughter of Margaret and Thomas) in Corwen - but then there is one in Ruthin. I have also found this will http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?sessionid=2013080921122321444&skin=profeb&lng=en&inst=consortium&function=EXTERNAL_CONTENT&externalurltype=856u&externalurl=http%3a%2f%2fdams.llgc.org.uk%2fintegration%2fbehaviour%2fllgc-id%3a728008%2ffedora-bdef%3azoom%2fllgc-id%3a728007%2f193.61.220.233%2fen for a John Jones Corviser (shoemaker) in Ruthin who could possibly be the father of Thomas?

Apologies for posting a lot lately but I'm going mad trying to get to the bottom of it!

[despair]

The first record is for Edward Jones and Lowry - no occupation or address
The second record is for Edward Jones and Elizabeth - labourer but no address

How did you make the connection to the army record if you don't mind me asking?

Regards
Roger

[jones9]

Roger,

All of Thomas' children were born at various different places along the South Coast: Portsmouth, Plymouth, Eastbourne, and then Corwen. I suspected he was in the Navy at first but a member of rootschat suggested this military record which seemed to fit. The history of where the 32nd Regiment were at various years fits in with where his children were born. Plus his military record lists him as a Shoemaker so seems to be in order.

Thank you for looking up record. His eldest son was a John Jones so I think a John Jones shoemaker would be more likely as his father. There's this will for a man of that description in Ruthin - I can't find the Thomas son of Johnand Hannah who would be his son though. Perhaps he was born in Corwen and later moved to Ruthin or vice versa?

It does seen likely that this 1776 baptism in Corwen is likely but the Ruthin connection is bothering me - I'm  sure there's a connection somewhere.

[despair]

I have found a record that may connect to your army man but does not necessarily fit the greater picture(?)
The record is from Llanrhydd,which along with Llanfwrog,I always regard as Ruthin

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Llanrhydd/

1780 -  Thos son to Thomas Jones,Taylor a militiaman by Mary his wife

I have found Thomas senior's military record and his burial.His dates are 1752-1834.

Regards
Roger

[jones9]

Roger,

This is very interesting and quite possible. I have been told on the Armed Forces board that the trade which is recorded on a military record is at the time when they joined - so this would mean Thomas was a shoemaker at least in 1801, probably in 1799 which makes me presume he at least had training by someone when he was younger.

He joined the Cheshire fencibles and was posted to Ireland where it was disbanded and he joined the regular army. He married his wife in Ireland and I suppose it's possible that he began to practice as a shoemaker there. It would help if I knew where he joined up for the Cheshire Fencibles, if in Corwen or Ruthin or Chester.

The Corwen connection is definite. The Ruthin connection is only possible - perhaps he signed up for the Febcibles in Ruthin but was born in Corwen?

There still seem to be far too many possibilities. Thanks for your help though!

Can you manage to open the 1826 will for a Margaret Jones of Pen y Bryn, Mwstwr, Corwen - it doesn't appear to be available online and is a possibility too!

Thanks,
Jones9

[despair]

I can't access that will either.
There is no indication as to where he joined the Fencibles.
There is a separate record,with no indication that it is a "record within a record" for a Thomas Jones born Llanrhydd circa 1780,shoemaker who joined the 23rd Foot/2nd Battalion in 1807,atte ested at Sheerness(?) and may have been drafted into the 1st Battalion,and discharged in 1815.
This is a summary of that regiment's movements:-

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/Britain/Infantry/Regiments/c_23rdFoot.html

Regards
Roger

[jones9]

Roger,

Many thanks for finding that, he could perhaps be a relative of my Thomas Jones? It does seem that there were quite a few men from the Ruthin area who joined the army anyway!

I am still looking for the Thomas Jones who appears in the will of John Jones who died in 1784, Ruthin and his wife was Hannah.

It's probably unrelated but I notice in Chester 15 April 1778 Holy Trinity, there's a baptism for Thomas Jones, son of John and Hannah which is interesting!

[jones9]

I've emailed NLW about getting a copy of the will of Margaret Jones above.

Would the burial record mention anything about her husband/other details?

Also there is a burial of Thomas Jones in Corwen 13 February 1821, I'm wondering if the original will have his occupation/any other details? I've decided my best bet is to try and find the burial record first.

[despair]

The 1821 burial is for Thomas Jones of "Cefn" (1739-1821)- no occupation given

I'm not too sure what to make of this series(assuming they are the same couple)

All entries are for sons to John Jones(shoemaker) and Margaret,Corwen

1816  John  "Corwen"
1820 William  - Corwen Gate"
1822 Robert - Pen y Bryn
1827 Margaret - "Corwen"
Pen y Bryn is probably a common name and there may be more than one and not necessarily the one you were looking for.
Unfortunately a lot of the records around this time for Corwen are not abode specific.

Regards
Roger