Author Topic: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser  (Read 24374 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 25 August 13 22:15 BST (UK) »
Good stuff, Gadget. I am now quite convinced that Charles Fraser's father must have been Thurlow son of William and Isabella, as you say. However we still don't know why daisypetals said he was the illegitimate son of Margaret Fraser.

The marriage of Margaret Fraser to Mr Imlach would clinch her identity, of course. I am willing to bet that she is related to George, William and Thurlow, all of whom were born in Fraserburgh, and that all the Thurlow Frasers, and Thurlow Dunlop, are related to one another.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline daisypetals01

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #10 on: Monday 26 August 13 04:11 BST (UK) »
Thankyou so much Gadget and Forfarian!  :) :)
I am very much a novice at geneaology and am so impressed at how you both came up with so much information. This is wonderful!

First, I didn't mean to imply that Margaret had Thirlow illegitimately. The sketchy info that I saw didn't list a father's name.

Interesting that Thirlow Dunlop was a blacksmith. Charles Fraser was also a blacksmith in Grosse Isle Manitoba.

What is confusing is the spelling of the name Thurlow (Thirlow or Thurlew, or...). When a person is trying to chase and nail down information, the names change and it makes like chasing a rabbit in the bushes. Also, confusing is the changing of partners. I gather that Thirlow and Elspet (Elsie) didn't last as a relationship much past the birth of Charles. 

I am looking at all the above information and trying to fit the pieces into what I have gotten.

Of interest, I saw somewhere, cannot remember, that there was a Margaret Fraser who came to Manitoba and died there in the early 1900s. I wonder if this is the same Margaret Fraser (Dunlop) that had Thirlow. If it is, it makes sense then that he changed his name from Dunlop to Fraser if she came alone and was still going by Fraser.

The tie to William Fraser and Isobel Mitchell is one that I did investigate before and it seems to be valid, too. I will have to see where their child Thirlow ended up. If he ended up in Canada and in Manitoba, I will have to seriously look at him, too.

If you two have anymore info. I would love to have it.
Take care

Offline Forfarian

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #11 on: Monday 26 August 13 06:39 BST (UK) »
According to the certificate that Gadget looked at, Margaret Fraser had married a Mr Imlah, and the IGI lists the marriage as Margaret Dunbar Fraser to James Imlah in 1863 in Aberdeen. A Margaret Imlah or Fraser died in Scotland in 1904, aged 66. You would have to check that this one's death certificate matches the one in the marriage certificate of course, but it looks very likely that this is the mother of Charles Fraser. If she is, and assuming that her age on the death certificate is accurate, she was born in 1837/8, and she did not emigrate to Canada.

According to the IGI, Margaret Dunbar Fraser and James Imlach had four children
Joan Bonna Fraser, born 5 September 1864 in Keith
Margaret Thomson Fraser, born 20 March 1867 in Keith
Jane Fraser Imlah, born 11 November 1868, birth registered both in Strichen and in Abernethy and Kincardine
James, born 30 May 1871 in Abernethy and Kincardine
William Forsyth, born 29 June 1874 in Abernethy and Kincardine
but there could be more because the IGI stops at 1874/5.

Unfortunately I don't have access to my 1881 census CD-ROM just now, but when I do I'll look them up and check Margaret's birthplace.

daisypetals, you wrote,
Quote
I didn't mean to imply that Margaret had Thirlow illegitimately.
The absence of a father's name on a birth certificate always indicates that the child was illegitimate. The law assumes that the father of the child of a married woman is the husband, unless the woman specifically declares that he is not. So you didn't have to imply it or otherwise, it was perfectly obvious from the entry in the IGI.

Quote
What is confusing is the spelling of the name Thurlow (Thirlow or Thurlew, or...).
Just be thankful you are not trying to cope with the 53 documented ways of spelling the surname 'Taylor' then. Or the almost uncountable ways of spelling MacDonald or MacGregor. In 'Scotland's People' use 'th*rl*' and it will pick up all the spelling variants.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Gadget

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #12 on: Monday 26 August 13 07:19 BST (UK) »
According to the certificate that Gadget looked at, Margaret Fraser had married a Mr Imlah, and the IGI lists the marriage as Margaret Dunbar Fraser to James Imlah in 1863 in Aberdeen. A Margaret Imlah or Fraser died in Scotland in 1904, aged 66. You would have to check that this one's death certificate matches the one in the marriage certificate of course, but it looks very likely that this is the mother of Charles Fraser. If she is, and assuming that her age on the death certificate is accurate, she was born in 1837/8, and she did not emigrate to Canada.


I think you m^e^an that she was the mother of the other Thurrlow/Thirlow Dunlop/Fraser  (who was not Charles' father)

daisypetal - Margaret was not Charles Fraser's grandmother, she was his great aunt.

Quote
According to the IGI, Margaret Dunbar Fraser and James Imlach had four children
Joan Bonna Fraser, born 5 September 1864 in Keith
Margaret Thomson Fraser, born 20 March 1867 in Keith
Jane Fraser Imlah, born 11 November 1868, birth registered both in Strichen and in Abernethy and Kincardine
James, born 30 May 1871 in Abernethy and Kincardine
William Forsyth, born 29 June 1874 in Abernethy and Kincardine
but there could be more because the IGI stops at 1874/5.

Unfortunately I don't have access to my 1881 census CD-ROM just now, but when I do I'll look them up and check Margaret's birthplace.

1881
Boat of Garten, Duthil, Inverness

James Imlah, 43, railway brakeman, b. ? , Aberdeenshire
Margrat, w, 42, b. Fraserburgh
Margrat, d, 14, b. Keith
Jean R F, d, 11, b, Strichen
Hamish, s, 9, b. Abernethy  - (assume this is James)
William F, s, 6, b. Abernethy
William Duff, boarder, 39, Assistant minister, b. Logierait


Gadget
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Offline Forfarian

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #13 on: Monday 26 August 13 07:27 BST (UK) »
Quote
I think you man that she was the mother of the other Thurrlow/Thirlow Dunlop/Fraser  (who was not Charles' father)
Yes. Slip of the brain.

Quote
James Imlah, 43, railway brakeman, b. ? , Aberdeenshire
Margrat, w, 42, b. Fraserburgh
Margrat, d, 14, b. Keith
Jean R F, d, 11, b, Strichen
Hamish, s, 9, b. Abernethy  - (assume this is James)
William F, s, 6, b. Abernethy
William Duff, boarder, 39, Assistant minister, b. Logierait

So she was indeed born in Fraserburgh, in 1838/9.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Gadget

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #14 on: Monday 26 August 13 07:29 BST (UK) »
I can't find her on the IGI as yet - maybe I'll get out my credits out and see what her marriage cert has.

William was a lot older - 43 on the 1861.
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Offline Gadget

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #15 on: Monday 26 August 13 07:38 BST (UK) »
Margaret Fraser's parents were Alexander Fraser, forester and Christiana m.s. Burnett  - both deceased by 1863.

daisypetal - you say
Quote
The tie to William Fraser and Isobel Mitchell is one that I did investigate before and it seems to be valid, too. I will have to see where their child Thirlow ended up. If he ended up in Canada and in Manitoba, I will have to seriously look at him, too.

This is the most likely father of Charles Fraser and I found him married to Mary Park and living in Newcastle upon Tyne:


I find Thirlow Fraser, 42, b. Scotland with wife Mary, 36,  b. Scotland and 4 children  in Elswick, Wesgate, Newcastle upon Tyne in 1901 - RG13/4774/57/. A daughter, Elsibella/Isabella is listed. In 1891 - Westgate, N upon T -  RG12/4200/136/26

Tracing back, there is a marriage between a Thirlow Fraser, farm servant, aged 25, living Old Deer  and Mary Park, aged 19,   on 22 Nov 1884, Belhelvie. His parents are given as William Fraser, Ag Lab and Isabella, m.s. Mitchell.

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Offline Forfarian

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #16 on: Monday 26 August 13 07:42 BST (UK) »
I can't find her on the IGI as yet - maybe I'll get out my credits out and see what her marriage cert has.
William was a lot older - 43 on the 1861.

Yes. We have the given name Th*rl*w associated with

George Fraser, born 1813/14 in Fraserburgh
William Fraser, born 1818/9 in Fraserburgh
Thurlow Fraser, born 1825/6 in Fraserburgh
Margaret Fraser, born 1837/9 in Fraserburgh

None of whose baptisms are listed in the community indexed IGI.

Incidentally Thirlow Fraser, aged 80, died in Newcastle-upon-Tyne in 1940. 
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Gadget

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #17 on: Monday 26 August 13 07:50 BST (UK) »
 :D

On the 1891 census, William F Fraser and Isabella are living in Longside.

Here is his death ~

Longside - William Findlay Fraser, married to Isabella Mitchell, died  21 February 1904. aged 88.

Parents - Alexander Fraser, forester and Christina m.s. Burnett

Quote from: Gadget
Margaret Fraser's parents were Alexander Fraser, forester and Christiana m.s. Burnett  - both deceased by 1863.

So he was the brother of Margaret as you thought!


Gadget

arggggggggggh - laptop needs charging !
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