James Montgomery born 1810 in "Stirlingshire"

[MPaquet]

My ggg-grandfather was James Montgomery born 1810 in "Stirlingshire". He emigrated to Valcartier (near Quebec City), married there in 1835, was a farmer, Presbyterian, and raised a large family. I have been using familysearch.org and scotslandspeople.com to try to trace his Scottish origins.

I found a James Montgomery and Agnes Davidson who had a son James Montgomery born April 20, 1810 in Whitburn, West Lothian. Would Whitburn have been in Stirlingshire at that time?

[apanderson]

I'm afraid not.

It may have been the case James was born somewhere 'other' than Stirlingshire and his family subsequently moved over the county border?

He may never have been told where his actual place of birth was and if they remained in Stirlingshire, he would have been none the wiser.

Anne 

[loobylooayr]

Hi MPaquet and welcome to Rootschat,
Do you know all the childrens names of your ggg-father? The Scots often called their children after family members and could give you clues to James's family in Scotland.
Looby 

[MPaquet]

Ann, thank you for your comments. The same thoughts had occurred to me!

Loobylooary, great suggestion!

Here is a listing of the 13 children of James Montgomery (b. 1810- d. 1885) and Deborah Shea (b. 1817- d. 1883) in Valcartier, Quebec:

1. Agnes (1836)
2. Joseph (1837)
3. Jane (1839)
4. Alison (1841)
5. Catherine (1843)
6. Mary Ann (?)
7. James (1847)
8. Margaret (1849)
9. Deborah (1853)
10. Robert (?)
11. Elizabeth (born 1855 - died 1860)
12. Hannah (1858)
13. William (1859)

I am a descendent of their youngest son, William.

[loobylooayr]

Hi again,

The Scottish naming tradition tended to be
First son - called after father's father
Second son - called after mother's father
Third son- after father
First daughter- called after mother's mother
Second daughter- called after father's mother
Third daughter -called after mother
Of course this was not a hard and fast rule and sometimes the grandparents might have the same Christian names.
The James Montgomery born to James Montgomery and Agnes Davidson at Whitburn is interesting because he seems to have siblings - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTP9-238
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTP9-27Z
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTP9-LBC

So Alison, Jane (Scottish variation is Jean) and Robert have all been used by your James Montgomery and his wife for their children. Plus he has a daughter Agnes.
I think the Whitburn family are a possibilty for you ggg-father's family. You'll just need to look at them a bit more closely and see if you can find more evidence.

Looby

[loobylooayr]

Found a little more info , I think
You can check this out on www.freecen.org.uk

1841 Census
Address- Camelon, Falkirk, Stirlingshire

Jas. Montgomery        M  Age 70    Merchant   Born outside Census County
Agnes Montgomery     F  Age  65                           ditto
John Montgomery       M  Age 20                            ditto
There are also 6 men staying at this address (probably lodgers and they all have the occupation of Mason)

1851 Census
Address - Camelon, Falkirk
Agness Montgomery     Head   Widow  age 70   Cow Feeder   born Midlothian, Mid Calder
Jane   Montgomery       Granddau        age 7     Scholar         born Falkirk, Stirlingshire
Also 2 House servants.

also at Camelon
Robert Montgomery  Head   age  41      Labourer at Naphta Works born West Lothian, Linlithgow
Jean Montgomery    wife       age   42     Publican                            born Falkirk, Stirlingshire
Agnes Montgomery dau      age 19      House Servant                               ditto
James Montgomery  son     age 17      Tracker Canal                                 ditto
John Montgomery    son     age 15      Cowfeeder's servant                        ditto
Robert Montgomery son     age 13      Scholar                                             "
Cecilia Montgomery  dau     age 11       scholar                                            "
Malcolm Montgomery son     age 9         scholar                                           "
Willm Montgomery    son     age 5         scholar                                           "

Phew!! I think the above 1841 entry is James Montgomery and Agnew Davidson. The couple also seem to have had a son John Montgomery born at Whitburn https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYW9-23J
He would have been 23 at the time of the 1841 Census but ages on this Census can be unreliable as adults were instructed to round their ages down to the nearest 0 or 5.
The 1851 Census, I think is Agnes Davidson/Montgomery as a widow.  Robert is, I think, her son born in 1808.

Looby

[MPaquet]

Looby, thanks for the census information! That's just brilliant! And I also really appreciate your identification of the Scottish naming pattern.

James Montgomery and Agnes Davidson had 3 children in Kirknewton and East Calder:
1. John (1800)
2. Janet (1804)
3. Margaret (1806)

Then they had 5 more children in Whitburn:
4. Robert (1808)
5. James (1810)
6. Jean (1812)
7. Alison (1814)
8. a second son named John (1817) - perhaps indicating that the first had died?

So there certainly is a similar naming pattern.

[loobylooayr]

You are welcome 
If you look on Scotlands People, I'm sure you'll find Agnes's death in 1863. She lived to be a grand age.
I would agree that the first John probably had died when the last child was named John. The fact that they reused the name would indicate to me that this was a family name (probably James Montgomery snr's father). I couldn't find John born 1817 on the 1851 Census, so either he had died or left Scotland. I noticed on the 1841 Census that the transcription had no occupation for John - perhaps he didn't work due to illness  Then again Family search has a John Montgomery born 1817 Linthgowshire (West Lothian) West Lothian on the 1861 Census at Arbroath in Forfarshire (Angus).

There is also another sibling- Agnes Montgomery born 16 Feb 1802 at Kirknewton and East Calder
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTRG-S46

Alison Montgomery and Robert  Montgomery both appear to marry in Falkirk during the 1830's. You can find their marriages on Familysearch. So I would think that the West Lothian Montgomery Family appear to have moved to Falkirk some time after John's birth in 1817 and that's where James born 1810 remembered staying and believed he was born there. Tracing Alison on the 1851/1861 Census would give you her place of birth and support the evidence that  your James Montgomery was the brother of this family and the one born in Whitburn, West Lothian.
Good luck with your research,
Looby

[MPaquet]

I want to thank you so much for your assistance!

I spent a lovely day on Sunday trying to digest this information!

My next challenge is to figure out where James Montgomery and Agnes Davidson were born -- as they both state "not in this census county".

And then I want to figure out where they were married.

I want to track this down because my James in Quebec was a pioneer farmer, and I am guessing that he had gained some experience as a child or young adult with farming on either a Montgomery or Davidson farm somewhere.

Using freecen.co.uk, I discovered that there were only a few Montgomery's who identified themselves as farmers (a total of 26) in the 1841 census, whereas there were 220 Davidson farmers at that time -- 42 with the first name James, 43 with John, 27 with William, etc.

Thanks again for your assistance!