Help wanted to confirm, deny or unravel my McBride's please?

[millymcb]

Hi All

I have been trying to unravel my McBride family for a while and it has been on hold due to lack of new info. But recently I found some burial info which has set me off on a new search.

If someone with a bit of time to spare could take a look and see if I am on the right track and maybe make a few suggestions I would be grateful.

Have I gone drastically wrong anywhere?
Can I claim James and Elizabeth who died 1840 in Chorlton?
How can I find births for their children (in ireland) - in particular Henry born Monaghan
Is Elizabeth mother to all the children?
What happened to the other children seen in the 1841 Census?
Are the other children who died in 1839 and 1840 also theirs?

My starting point is Henry McBride - Joiner - born Ballybay, Monaghan circa 1829 - 1831
I don't have any birth details for him (just year and place from census)
ANY TIPS ON WHERE TO LOOK NEXT FOR HIS BIRTH?

His father was James McBride, shoemaker.  (Info from Henry's marriage cert to Ellen Elliott, Manchester 24 Dec 1859)
There is a very old thread about him here which didn't come to much.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=30670.20

Until recently I had not managed to find out anything more about James the shoemaker but had a possible Census in 1841. Married to Elizabeth with some children, including a Henry of about the same age.  Occupation was hard to read and could possibly have said "shoemy". Address Elvington Street, Hulme (Salford). Without further proof I put this on hold.

I tried to follow up on the parents and various children in later census but with no luck (apart from Henry who I have in all later census, and most of his children).  I thought most likely the parents died young and the various children split up.  I have vague census possibilities for the daughters Eliz and Margaret as domestic servants but nothing for brother James or any proof they are the right ones.


This is what I have for Henry - which apart from 1841 all fits together and leads to son William W McBride. His marriage verified with certificate (110 Altringham St, Manchester occupation Joiner)

The 54 Drydon St address in 1881 fits his army papers and that of his brother James who he gives as next of kin after his father dies. It is also confirmed by a personal memory of someone descended from James who had been to that house.

1841 census HO107/583/13
Reg  district: Chorlton
Sub-reg district: Hulme

James McBride abt 1796 Ireland "shoemy?"
Elizabeth McBride  abt 1801  Ireland   
Margret McBride abt 1835 Ireland 
Henry McBride abt 1829 Ireland 
James McBride abt 1825 Ireland   
Elizabeth McBride abt 1821 Ireland   

1851 - I am pretty sure I have Henry living as lodger Joiner (journeyman) spelt McBryde, says born Manchester but this could just have been the head of household's mistake

1861 CENSUS
Henry McBride with wife Ellen and daughter Harriet (6 b 1855, Manchester) & sons Henry (4 b1857) and Walter (2, b 1859)
(Their baptisms show they were born out of wedlock before the 1959 marriage but has Henry as their father)
Also lodgers  Henry Sherley (Shirley? Shorley?) a joiner (23 from Seasborough in Yorkshire), Elizabeth Shirley (22 also from Hovingham) & their daughter, Mary E Sherley (also Seasborough)
Class: RG9; Piece: 2969; Folio: 66; Page: 18; GSU roll: 543057.

1871CENSUS
195 Great Ancoats Street
Berkley McBride 8
Elen McBride 37
Elen McBride 4
Frederick McBride 1
Harriet McBride 16
Henry McBride 38
Henry McBride 14
Lizabeth McBride 6
Walter McBride 12

1881 census
16 Dryden St
Berkley Mc Bride 19
Elizabeth Mc Bride 16
Ellen Mc Bride 47
Ellen M. Mc Bride 13
Frederick Mc Bride 11
Henry Mc Bride 49
James Mc Bride 8
Walter Mc Bride 22
William W. Mc Bride 5

1891 CENSUS - has Henry born Ballybay abt 1831
6 No 1 Passage, Jane Street?, Ancoats
Robert Ed Dalton 44
Henry McBride 60 Born BALLYBAY, Monaghan, Joiner
William McBride 15 (son)
William Patterson 62

Ellen died 11 Feb 1888, 25 Jersey Stree
Henry dies 15 Jul 1896, 89 Brooke Street, Manchester
William then joins army in 1894, returning in 1904, marries in Manchester in 1906 to Maria Toft nee Steele


Continued in next post...

Milly

[millymcb]

Continued...


So - this is where I am.


I now have burial details for a James McBride and Elizabeth McBride in Manchester. (All Saints Chorlton Upon Medlock found on Ancestry Manchester burials)
I sent off for Death Certs which gave following info

James McBride age 45 Died of Pthisis (TB) 10/7/1841
Registered Hulme
Occupation Cordwainer
Informant Elizabeth McBride, Widow, of Elvington St

and
Elizabeth McBride age 39 Died of Pthisis (TB) 12/12/1841
Registered Chortlon upon Medlock
Widow of James McBride, deceased Shoemaker
Informant James McBride, George St (I am assuming this is their son for now)


The burial for James McBride has address Elvington St occupation cordwainer
This matches the address in 1841 "Shoemy" Census for him with wife Elizabeth
The death of Elizabeth matches the age on the 1841 census and she is widow of James, Shoemaker. Address George St
There is a Henry born 1829 in this Census - which sort of fits the birth date of later census (although they vary)

No other potential James McBride's have been found. Except one on LancsOPC for the marriage of a James McBride, Shoemaker to Margaret Waters

Marriage: 27 Jan 1823 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
James McBride - Shoemaker, this Parish
Margaret Waters - (X), Spinster, this Parish
Witness: Jeffy. Gumley; Margaret Lineca

I cannot find this James or Margaret in any census. 

I thought I had James and Elizabeth sorted but now this one possibility that occurred to me is that perhaps James was previously married to Margaret in Liverpool. She dies and he marries Elizabeth? If so - it throws doubt on who the mother of the older children is.I think it unlikely as the children were all stated as born out of county (Ireland) in 1841 Census but you never know.

POSSIBLE OTHER CHILDREN
Manchester burials on Ancestry have additional burials for these birth years in Hulme and buried in same place - Chorlton All Saints. Could these be other children? Looking at birth years it is very possible. (Sad if they all died so close together - perhaps also of TB?)
William born abt 1823 d march b 1839 (Is it worth getting this death cert?)
John born abt 1834 d nov  1839
Ellen born abt 1838 d may 1839
George born abt 1840 d feb 1841

Also these two which are too late for it to be them:
Robert b 1848 d apr 1855 and  Robert b 1853  d aug 1856

I thought the George burial might be interesting as it was close to 1841 Census
Name:   George McBride
Age:   7/12....  b 1840
Burial Date:   25 Feb 1841
Chorlton upon Medlock, All Saints

So I ordered his birth cert.
Born 11 June 1840
Father James McBride, cordwainder
Mother Elizabeth Formerly Thompson
Address 88 Newcastle Street, Hulme

I am presuming this is the same James and Elizabeth but now I need his death cert in the hope that by then they may have moved to Elvington St.
Unless there is another James and Elizabeth, occ shoemaker in the area. It is not the son James as he is only 16 and still at home in the 1841 Census.

So - any thoughts anyone.  Can I claim James and Elizabeth yet? And is it possible to go further back in Ireland for their marriage and birth of any of the children.  I have not found anything yet. I did look at LDS microfilm for what was available a few years ago but didn't find anything. I think they are Protestant by the way. Is George another sibling and is Elizabeth Thompson likely to be the mother of all the children?

Milly

[garstonite]

James McBride abt 1796 Ireland "shoemy?"
Elizabeth McBride  abt 1801  Ireland   
Margret McBride abt 1835 Ireland 
Henry McBride abt 1829 Ireland 
James McBride abt 1825 Ireland   
Elizabeth McBride abt 1821 Ireland  - this daughter is born   before the possible 1823 marriage of James McBride to Margaret Waters and named after her mother Elizabeth...looks like Elizabeth is the mother of all James McBrides children to me  ...

[ShaunJ]

Just looking at the 1841 census, I think the occupation is written as  "shoem" rather than "shoemy. " The apparent downstroke at the end is one of a series of check marks that were added later

[millymcb]

James McBride abt 1796 Ireland "shoemy?"
Elizabeth McBride  abt 1801  Ireland   
Margret McBride abt 1835 Ireland 
Henry McBride abt 1829 Ireland 
James McBride abt 1825 Ireland   
Elizabeth McBride abt 1821 Ireland  - this daughter is born   before the possible 1823 marriage of James McBride to Margaret Waters and named after her mother Elizabeth...looks like Elizabeth is the mother of all James McBrides children to me  ...

Thanks - I had forgotten about the 1821 Elizabeth - good point!

Milly

[millymcb]

Just looking at the 1841 census, I think the occupation is written as  "shoem" rather than "shoemy. " The apparent downstroke at the end is one of a series of check marks that were added later

Thanks. Also - given the death cert with Elvington St I think that shoem can be said to be short for shoemaker. I had thought this as I have found no alternatives but didn't want to "assume".  I have been cautious so far - but hope that this 1841 census with father James Shoemaker and son Henry is MY McBride family with MY Henry.

Milly

[KGarrad]

A note of caution!

The 1841 census doesn't mention relationships (to head of household) so beware of assuming that all the children are sons and daughters, and not nephews and nieces!

[millymcb]

True - thanks for the reminder

Ideally I would have same family in 1851 too which would help- but unfortunately there is no sign of any of them together!

Milly

[Emma Louise Jones]

I think we may be related millymcb, ive been doing some research with very little background but from what i have found

My grandfather was Geoffrey b McBride, his father Berkeley Edward mMcbride, his father Berkeley Mcbride, back to Henry then to James.