Author Topic: Old English letters and words  (Read 1309 times)

Offline Jondi99

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Old English letters and words
« on: Friday 06 December 13 14:38 GMT (UK) »
The extract below is from a Will I am trying to decipher but having problems with some words and letters - even with reference material to help recognise them. 

The first words are on the third line which starts "my" and then two words I fail to recognise.  One of these words appears to be repeated as the first word on the fifth line.

The next words are also on the fifth line where it reads, "land and *** with the *** names"

Can anyone please help?

With thanks in anticipation.


Offline josey

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Re: Old English letters and words
« Reply #1 on: Friday 06 December 13 14:56 GMT (UK) »
The word in 3rd & 5th lines:
'messuage'

5th line:
'lands and tenement with the apurtenances'
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline Henry7

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Re: Old English letters and words
« Reply #2 on: Friday 06 December 13 15:01 GMT (UK) »
Line 3: "Messuage & Tenement"

Line 5: "Messuage farmland and Tenement with the Appurtenances"
Ballingall, Donaldson, Fulton, Gillespie, Ramsay, Walker - in Fife.
Bury - in Salford & Liverpool.
Jack - in Glasgow, Dunfermline & Dundee.
Bermingham/Birmingham - in Cork.
Eagle - in Norfolk, Edinburgh & Glasgow.

Offline josey

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Re: Old English letters and words
« Reply #3 on: Friday 06 December 13 15:04 GMT (UK) »
Yes Henry7, I stand corrected on 5th line with 'farmland'  :)
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON


Offline Jondi99

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Re: Old English letters and words
« Reply #4 on: Friday 06 December 13 16:20 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks to all for your very quick replies.  I would never have made the words "Messuage" and "Appertenances" out.  But I do understand what they refer to.

Unfortunately I now have found two more parts that I need a little help with. 

Can anyone confirm the first attachment is an archaic way of defining the date by using the reign of a monarch?

Is the second attachment a confirmation the Will has passed Probate?

Many thanks in anticipation.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Old English letters and words
« Reply #5 on: Friday 06 December 13 17:55 GMT (UK) »
Can anyone confirm the first attachment is an archaic way of defining the date by using the reign of a monarch?

... on the twentyeth day of April in the third year of the reign of King George of Great Britain and in the year of our Lord 1717 ...

Is the second attachment a confirmation the Will has passed Probate?

(summary)
This will was proved in London ... by the oath of Thomas Summersett, brother of the deceased and the sole executor named in the will, to whom administration was granted ... (etc.)

ADDED - in line 5, I would say there are four different assets listed -- Messuage Farm Land and Tenement.
It's hard to tell when the spacing is irregular and there is no punctuation, but there is a capital L for Land.

Offline Jondi99

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Re: Old English letters and words
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 07 December 13 10:27 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks again for your quick and comprehensive reply.

I have never seen a Will dated in this manner before and, to me, it appears quite odd to include details of a reigning monarch within the text especially to add to a date.

Thanks for confirming the the addition is the 'proving' of the Will.  It looked that way to me but I have no knowledge of Latin and needed the assurance.

The fact that this, and one or two other Wills I have looked at, have little or no punctuation does cause me some difficulty in interpretation at times.  In the case you mention it is possible to read the text (now I have had help!) two ways.  However, I have the advantage others haven't of the full text and given the mention of both a farm at Birdham and property in Chichester it does seem likely you are right about it being four rather than three words.

Once again, many thanks for your help.