Does this say Mary E Douglass?

[supermoussi]

If Mary was 3 yrs old in April 1881, she was much more likely to have been born in 1877 rather than 1878. Have you ruled out:-

Dec 1877
DOUGLAS    Mary Ellen         Leigh    8c   277

Also have you checked out the Baptism registers for the local churches?

[Poppyjoey]

I'd not seen this baptism you suggest - I only came across the census entry yesterday, when I queried if it does indeed say 'Mary'. So I've not a chance to check anything out yet, though your suggestion is very promising. Thank you for posting. I have plenty to check out now!

Julie

[Poppyjoey]

Managed to find this Walker family in the 1871 census, under the name 'Walder'…..mother  Elizabeth is absent, though father James says he's married, and mother reappears in 1881. Also absent are the 'Newby' or 'Newby Walker' children…..

[Ladyhawk]

Managed to find this Walker family in the 1871 census, under the name 'Walder'…..mother  Elizabeth is absent, though father James says he's married, and mother reappears in 1881. Also absent are the 'Newby' or 'Newby Walker' children…..

for info. here's the link for the 1871 census you mention above
(no occupation given for father James ) living 5 Carver St
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KD6W-6XM

I wonder if these might be William’s &  Agnes H christenings at
St Mary Hulme parents James Walker & Elizabeth

William  22 Jun 1862
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FM18-3HD

Agnes Harriet  9 Oct 1864
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FM18-7JL

Agnes Harriet Walker age 19 occ Machinist father James Dec’d occ Porter
Marriage Date:   18 May 1883 St John the Baptist Hulme
Robert Myers occ Clerk father Robert occ Clerk
Both single, both residence 24 Blanshard St., Witnesses James & Fanny Stott

1881 census living 1 Carver St.,  Agnes' occupation is Machinist
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQZB-BFV

Christenings Cathedral Manchester parents James Walker & Elizabeth

Alice 13 Jun 1858
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NGKG-PGC

Thomas 1 Jul 1860
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J3QH-LJV

from Manchester, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1901 (Cathedral)
 St Mary, St Denys and St George Manchester
Alice born 26th Jun(y) 1858 & Thomas born 12th Feb 1860
father James Walker occ given Ominbus Conductor/Proprietor, abode Manchester

Haven't located mother Elizabeth born c1825 Leek on the 1871 census either 

[Poppyjoey]

Hi Ladyhawk,

I'm sure they are the christenings of William and Agnes as they were christened from 22 Hyde St, which is the address in the 1861 census for the family.

The two older children on the 1861, James and George, are probably from the previous marriage you suggested.

It looks like the baptisms you have found for Alice and Thomas relate to the Alice and Thomas Newby (as they are shown on the 1861) doesn't it? Possibly, as Mary Newby Walker was born before the marriage of James and Elizabeth, she was given both names….but not sure why Alice and Thomas were given Newby too, unless the census taker meant the 'ditto' to only apply to Walker! And why did they not revert to calling Mary just Mary Walker once they had married?

There is a baptism in Poulton-le-Fylde in 1854 for a Mary Newby with mother's maiden name Newby, but the census entry states Bispham, and while the two places are very close, I can't see why they would put Bispham on the census if it was Poulton-le-Fylde!

Thanks for your help with this
Julie

[Ladyhawk]

the baptisms you have found for Alice and Thomas relate to the Alice and Thomas Newby
 (as they are shown on the 1861) doesn't it?

There is a baptism in Poulton-le-Fylde in 1854 for a Mary Newby with mother's maiden name Newby

can't see why they would put Bispham on the census if it was Poulton-le-Fylde

Hello Julie - Happy New Year

I think Alice & Thomas from 1861 c surname is dittoed as Walker rather than Newby Walker

There are these two baptism records for a Mary NEWBY at All Hallows Bispham – nothing for a Mary Walker or Mary Newby Walker

Bispham with Norbeck, Poulton le Fylde and Blackpool are all in the Flyde Registration District

Don't know if the following will help

FreeBMD
Mary Newby Sep 1853 Flyde vol 8e page 476

Lancashire BMD
Mary Newby 1853 Poulton-le-Flyde mmn LONGDEN

Lancashire OPC
Mary Newby 28 Aug 1853 dau of James NEWBY occ Lab. & Ann,
son Thomas was bpt 1856

FreeBMD
1850 Manchester
James NEWBY name on same page  Anne LONGDEN

1861c RG 9; Piece: 3150; Folio: 91; Page: 11
James Newby b1831 Leek & Ann plus children Mary 1854 Bispham, son Thomas & others

The above James Newby appears to be the same one from the 1891 census with Elizabeth Walker

FreeBMD
Mary Newby Jun 1854 Flyde vol 8e page 551

Lancashire OPC
Mary Newby 21 May 1854  dau of Nicholas NEWBY occ Lab.  & Elizabeth
- not seeing seeing this family  on 1861c I cannot find a marriage either for NW to Elizabeth

Could this the same Mary Newby 1854 Poulton-le-Flyde mmn NEWBY on Lancashire BMD 

also wondering if Nicholas Newby is James' brother as James was ch. 1831 Leck parents James & Mary

1837 Leck Nicholas NEWBY  parents James & Mary
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXD6-XMT

Still looking to see if I can find the connection of Mary E Douglass born c1878 to the Walker or Newby family

[Poppyjoey]

Hi,

Thank you, and a happy new year to you too.

I've not found anything more for Mary E Douglas yet….I have tried to find a marriage for Alice Walker to a Douglas, seeing as Elizabeth Walker claimed Mary was her grandchild on the 1881 (a Nuby - Newby? is also on this census, lends weight to Elizabeth being a Newby). So far I can't find any further daughters, the only other one being  Agnes Harriett who  married a Myers.

I have found a death for a Mary Newby Walker in Manchester, born c1853, died 1881. I can't find her and mother Elizabeth Walker on the 1871 census….I wonder if Mary was unwell and they had gone off somewhere, though they should still show up on a census.

Julie

[Ladyhawk]

I have found a death for a Mary Newby Walker in Manchester, born c1853, died 1881.

 I can't find her and mother Elizabeth Walker on the 1871 census….

possibilities for Elizabeth & Mary on 1871 c

Elizabeth Walker pob written as Leck Westmoreland on the 1861 census

Looks to me as if it states Elizabeth age 47 is married pob Westmorland occ. Cook on
1871c RG10; Piece: 4007; Folio: 112; Page: 18

Mary Newby age 17 (1854) pob Bispham Servant living in Yorkshire on
1871c RG10; Piece: 4458; Folio: 79; Page: 33

have look and see what you think -

** have just amended census ref. Elizabeth gave same one as Mary's 

[Poppyjoey]

Hi, I've had a look thanks. It certainly seems more than likely that you've found mother Elizabeth and daughter Mary in 1871. It fits in with father James being unemployed doesn't it -  sending the eldest daughter out to work, and possibly service was the only work she could get. Possibly James wasn't fit enough to work which is why Elizabeth had to. James was dead by 1881.

The death in Manchester for a Mary Newby Walker seems too much of a coincidence of name, yet Mary called herself Newby if it is her on the 1871.

It just shows how you need to study the census entries closely… I'd been looking for Elizabeth Newby born in Leek, until you pointed out it's Lech/Leck in Westmorland! Thank you!