Peter William Hollands, born Five Islands? NSW

[Ladyhawk]

So perhaps the 1884 birth is to this couple.

Marriage
6975/1883    
HOLEN Peter   
HARMER Harriet R
District Shoalhaven   

I wonder if the Holen-Harmer marriage is the same couple also, although I am not sure about how the dates match.

His parents as listed on his marriage certificate are William Peter Hollands (Detective)
and
Harriett Rose Anna Fuller, both deceased as of 1918.

Don't know if this will help you decide if the 1883 marriage is the right couple and
if this Harriet Rosina Harmer is Peter William Holland's mother

Harriet Rosina HARMER Apr-May-Jun 1863 Battle Sussex Vol    2b Page 50

a pedigree tree (familysearch) says Ellen Augusta Harmer had 3 children
all christened Battle Sussex, Surname HARMER
Ann 10 Apr 1861 burial 21 Apr 1863, James Frederick Samuel 3 Nov 1861 &
Harriet Rosina 2 Aug 1863
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MZ4M-94J?view=basic

1871 RG10; Piece: 1037; Folio: 18; Page: 3
No 3 Part cottage Brightling Sussex
John FULLER 40 51 Stone drawer
Ellen 31 Ashburnham Sussex
Ann 28
Stephen 17
John 11
James HARMER step son 9 Ashburnham
Harriet HARMER Step dau.  7  Battle Sussex
Philadelphia FULLER 5
George Fuller 2
Robert Fuller 9 months
Jane Fuller gd/dau 4 months

1881 RG11; Piece: 1034; Folio: 29; Page: 12
John & Ellen FULLER  family plus step son James HARMER
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQ9H-MB4

Harriett HARMER born c1861 Sussex occ Kitchen Maid
Arrival Date:   19 May 1883 Sydney NSW
Vessel Name:   Lochee
Departure Plymouth

Possible second marriage for Harriet

Harriet R HOLLAND
Samuel SOWDEN
Marriage Date:   1889 New South Wales
Reg Place: Maclean, New South Wales Reg number: 4193

This looks to be Harriet's mother

1861 RG 9; Piece: 565; Folio: 148; Page: 15 – Head Henry Champion 30
Mill corner Ashburnham Sussex
Ellen FULLER 22 Ashburnham Sussex  Servant Hs Keeper

probable marriage entry
(1891c shows Ellen Fuller born Ashburnham with middle initial 'A')

Ellen A HARMER Mar qtr 1864 Battle vol  2b page 48(a)
John FULLER      Mar qtr. 1864 Battle Vol 2b page 78(a) - The expected page range for this district is 43 to 55

probable birth/death entries

Ellen Augusta Harmer Sep 1839 Battle Sussex Vol 7 Page 218

Ellen FULLER died 1904 age 64 Battle Sussex

FOR INFO.

There are a number of public trees on ancestry for

Harriet Rosina Harmer
Birth 21 Jun 1863 in Battle Union Workhouse
Death 28 Aug 1958

mother Ellen Augusta Harmer
marriage to John Fuller  16 Feb 1866 St Thomas a Becket, Brightling East Sussex
there are pictures of some of the Fuller children

23 Apr 1899 Presbitarian Church, NSW, Australia no place given
Samuel SOWDEN of Lismore, farmer married Harriett Roseyina HOLLAND age 35 of Casino, dau of James Harmer, Battle, Eng.

you would need to verify info.

[skyedoug]

Wow Ladyhawk! That looks really interesting. Some fantastic research, thank you! It all seems to fit nicely with names and dates, etc, except the date of death, but then that may not be accurate on the marriage certificate anyway. I am eager to pursue this some more and I have just ordered the marriage cert for peter and harriet in 1883, so I will see once I get those details how that all fits. Thanks again for the details you have uncovered.

[skyedoug]

Hello Everyone
Just thought I would post an update on how this is all going. I have really appreciated all of the help that everyone has given.
I received the birth certificate for Peter Hollond and the marriage certificate for Peter Holon and Harriett Harmer from NSW BDM today. According to the dates and locations, etc they are for the same people despite the poor spelling. The birth certificate for Peter Hollond lists his father Peter Hollond as the informant and Harriett Rosina Harmer as his mother. It states the mother as being 20 at the birth in 1884 and born in England, which fits with the research done above. It says the marriage was in 1883 and the father was 45 at the birth, but the birth place is not discernible by me. It looks like it says 'O Tyrone'. The only thing I have been able to find that remotely fits that is Tyrone Station in Queensland, so it might be 'Q Tyrone', but I will have to try to investigate this further.
The marriage certificate doesn't have any information about parents, ages, or birthplaces unfortunately and is interesting as it lists Harriett as a widow and peter as a bachelor. The location is Kangaroo Mountain which is the same as for the birth certificate so I am fairly certain that these are for the same people, and the ones that I was searching for - my relatives. I have some more leads to work on now, so thank you all once again for all of your help!!
Skye

[cupoflife]

I think father's birth place is Co.Tyrone (County Tyrone) Northern Ireland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Tyrone

cheers
cupoflife

[skyedoug]

Thanks cupoflife, I can't find any listing for Hollands or any of the derivatives I can think of for a Queensland birth, so you may be correct. I will see what I can find for County Tyrone.

[skyedoug]

I have found 2 Peter Hollands in Ireland via www.rootsireland.ie (not sure if this is the best place to search or not), neither for County Tyrone, but each of them for a neighbouring county - one in 1836 in County Monaghan and one in 1842 in County Armagh. I had calculated his birth date to be c. 1839 from age on son's birth certificate (45yrs in 1884). I am not sure which one of these he would be. Any ideas anyone?
Thanks
Skye

[rosball]

JM has some excellent advice about those blanks on historic NSW marriage certs.   Essentially not all info was passed onto reg so need to contact church archives to get the missing info.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html

cheers,
   Ros

[Nova67]

I think I have found Ellen (Augusta) Harmer in a newspaper article. Charged, along with her niece Ann  Harmer, of stealing hops, but her good character is vouched for by her former employer.  Both were servants.
1861 England Census
ELLEN HARMER
22
b. 1839
Servant (Housekeeper)
Female
Birthplace: Ashburnham, Sussex
Reg District: Battle
Sub District:  Battle
ED:  11
PLACE: 563
FOLIO: 148
PAGE: 15
Article is: Hastings and Leonards Chronicle, Sussex Advertiser, Tuesday, 11 September, 1855

[Nova67]

I was trying to see if there were any other siblings for Peter, but the only other Hollands birth found so far in the district was:
33700/1886  HOLLANDS  HILDA M V  WILLIAM  BRIDGET  SHOALHAVEN 
Relations?