Author Topic: Martha Bines Canewdon  (Read 1553 times)

Offline Hemmum

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Martha Bines Canewdon
« on: Monday 24 February 14 21:15 GMT (UK) »
Could anyone please help with the baptism at Canewdon for Martha Bines which I think was about 1833-1836 as census
I think her parents were John Bines and Rhoda possibly Outen who had eight children in Canewdon between 1834-1859.

I would be grateful for a marriage for John Bines and Rhoda and also if there were any other Martha Bines baptised in Canewdon during this period.
(I have a real conundrum and need clarification on these points first)

Thank you

Offline olleym

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Re: Martha Bines Canewdon
« Reply #1 on: Monday 24 February 14 21:21 GMT (UK) »
Martha daughter of John & Rhoda baptised 24.08.1834
Father described as a labourer
Olleys in Essex

Offline olleym

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Re: Martha Bines Canewdon
« Reply #2 on: Monday 24 February 14 21:25 GMT (UK) »
John married Rhoda Outen in Canewdon on 12.07.1834
John was literate
Witnesses were Ann Bines & John Neal
Do you want details of John's parents?
John appears to have a sister called Martha

Mark
Olleys in Essex

Offline Hemmum

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Re: Martha Bines Canewdon
« Reply #3 on: Monday 24 February 14 21:39 GMT (UK) »
That is amazingly quick!! I am surprised that John was described as a labourer as he was a Carpenter on the census.

Could I prevail on your kind nature and ask if you could look at the other children's baptisms please (or at least the first three as they cross over to another part of my tree) just to check they are the same family. Although I cannot imagine that there were too many Rhoda's around!
John 1838, Thomas 1839, David, 1845, Isaiah 1849, Abraham 1851, Ruth 1856.
 Thank you for the marriage (they were just in time!)

Yes please regarding Johns parents and his sister Martha

Martha Bines marriage to Thomas Read was registered at Rochford 1852 Q2. I wonder if this was at Canewdon and if there any notes on the marriage.


Offline olleym

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Re: Martha Bines Canewdon
« Reply #4 on: Monday 24 February 14 22:30 GMT (UK) »
John baptised 30.07.1837
Thomas baptised 13.10.1839
William baptised 19.06.1842, possibly died youon 1848 will need to check (father now a carpenter)
Isaiah baptised 13.09.1849
Abraham baptised 01.06.1851
Ruth baptised 30.01.1858

David's birth was registered in Q1 1845 but can't find baptism in Canewdon
Also a Walter Bines born to John & Rhoda 1856, again no baptism in Canewdon

John's father appears to be a William Bines baptised Purleigh on 19.11.1775, he in turn was the son of William & Martha Bines.
William (from Soutminster) married Sarah White in & from Danbury on 05.05.1800

John (son of William and Sarah) was baptised on 24.02.1811

Unfortunately Canewdon marriages for 1852 are not on line, but a tree on Acestry claims Martha married Thomas Read in Canewdon on 24.01.1852


Mark
Olleys in Essex

Offline Hemmum

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Re: Martha Bines Canewdon
« Reply #5 on: Monday 24 February 14 22:56 GMT (UK) »
Mark, Thank you so much for all your hard work.
I will look at it properly tomorrow as off to bed as the grandchildren will be awake earlier than me tomorrow.
Thank you again

Offline Hemmum

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Re: Martha Bines Canewdon
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 25 February 14 12:22 GMT (UK) »
Here is my conundrum.
I hope I have explained everything clearly and given enough information. I have also given where the variation Read/Reed appears.

Thomas Read 1833 N Fambridge married Martha Bines 1833 Canewdon in 1852. They are together in Canewdon in 1861 but in 1871 Thomas is a widow with three children living Ockendon, Essex but there ‘appears’ to be a Martha Bines living at Warley Common Great Warley Essex with two of his children which she names as her ‘stepchildren’ not as her children. Who was she?

Thomas Read born 1833 seems to have emigrated in 1874 to Queensland Australia with his second wife Rebecca nee Medd born 1836 (possibly a widow at the marriage registered 1873 at Orsett ) and four of his children aboard The Glamorganshire in 1874.
From the death registration of Thomas’s daughter Sarah Ann born 1857 who died in 1913 in Australia and gives her parents and Thomas Read and Martha Bines so I am sure that this is the correct Thomas.

In 1871 Thomas was a widow on the census with three children living in South Ockendon, Essex.
Was his wife’s death; Martha REED death Reg 1864 Q2. Romford Essex. (after the birth of their last child Rhoda in 1863)

Considering ‘naming patterns' Martha Bines mother was named Rhoda and Thomas Read had a sister Sophia.
Her birth and death are possibly
Rodah Sophia Read. birth Reg Oct 1863 in Rochford, Essex.
Rosa Sophia Read born abt 1863 Death Reg Apr 1872 - Romford, Essex
This shows a move for the family from Canewdon to the Ockendon/Warley area.

Confusingly there is also a death Registered Apr 1872 at Romford for Martha Read aged 39 born 1833 but if Thomas was a widow in 1871 how could this be Martha his wife but could be the Martha on the 1871 census (see later). Were they simply separated but then who was Martha who died in 1864?

The fourth child of Thomas Read who also emigrated with him in 1874 but was not with Thomas in 1871 was Samuel Read aged 13 in 1874 (born 1861)

Here is where the problem starts
In 1871 Samuel Reed born 1862 Canewdon, Stepson and Radah [Rhoda] S Reed born 1864 Rochford, Stepdaughter were in the household of Martha Pullen [Gullen on FindMyPast. Gullier on IGI any other ideas welcome!] a married Dressmaker aged 38 born in 1833 Canewdon living at White Huts, Warley Common. Essex.

Also with Martha Pullen/Gullen was Thomas Bines aged 31 born 1840 in Canewdon (son of John and Rhoda?) and his family. If Thomas Bines was the brother of a married Martha then it seems she was probably Martha Bines.

If there was only one Martha Bines born circa 1834 in Canewdon and she married in 1852 to Thomas Read born 1834 N. Fambridge a widow in 1871, who was the married Martha ??? on the 1871 census?

In 1871 Martha describes the children not as son and daughter but as ‘step children’, which I understand can also mean related by marriage. Martha’s brother David Bines is given on an earlier census as step-brother to Thomas when he was actually his brother-in-law. If Samuel and Rhoda were Martha's children why did she not acknowledge this, even if she was escaping an unhappy marriage and living under an assumed name?

I have been unable to find Martha Pullen/Gullen born 1833 Canewdon on another census.

I wondered if she may have been related to Martha Bines mother Rhoda Outen. There are three different transcriptions of Martha’s surname, could she have be Martha Outen?
I found a Martha Outen born 1833 Canewdon and that Martha Hales married Edward Outen reg 1854 Q1 Rochford Essex, but this Martha is on the 1871 census with her husband Edward??

I could not find Thomas’s 2nd wife Rebecca Medd on the 1871 census or her death or remarriage in Queensland.
Thomas himself probably died 1883.  ** born England aged 53 years (born 1832) QLD Australia death C478
The family lived in the Bundaberg/Diamantina area of QLD.

Any ideas / opinions for this problem / solutions - gratefully received???

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Martha Bines Canewdon
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 25 February 14 12:50 GMT (UK) »
My immediate suspicion is that there has been a break up of Thomas and Martha's relationship. they have both found other partners - hence Martha's use of a different surname and use of step children to described her children's relationship to the actual head of household (her partner, wherever he is on census night)

Offline Hemmum

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Re: Martha Bines Canewdon
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 25 February 14 13:03 GMT (UK) »
That seems the obvious answer but Thomas did not have a partner in 1871and why did he not just say married rather than widow? There is also the death reg in 1864 of Martha Reed to consider. I would just like to be sure so looking at all other information