Author Topic: Sloop Research/Drowned master/Ship Logs - Co. Kerry, Ireland & Liverpool  (Read 2064 times)

Offline AmyLB

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Sloop Research/Drowned master/Ship Logs - Co. Kerry, Ireland & Liverpool
« on: Friday 28 February 14 07:25 GMT (UK) »
I'm looking to further my research about a sloop that my ancestor was the master of.

According to the Sussex Advertiser, 20 November 1826:
"...the sloop Catherine and Anne, (belonging to Mr. Richard Hickson, of Blennerville [Ireland]), Robert Gage, master, sailed from ... [Tralee, Ireland] for Liverpool.

There was cargo aboard - so I don't think it was a passenger vessel. Ultimately, GAGE was swept overboard and buried in the 'stormy ocean' outside the harbour of Killybegs, Ireland.

Can anyone lend support to:
find shipping records for the sloop Catherine and Anne.
find sailing records/history of Robert GAGE as a master.
find information about the owner, Richard HICKSON. Family lore indicates a connection between the GAGE and HICKSON family, but I can't find any record yet.

There must be harbour records, right? Where do I find them online? or via your support? What else could I find about sailing records? The vessel? The cargo?

Thanks so much for your assistance,
Kindly,
Amy
Gage - Co. Kerry, Ireland
Naughten/Naughton/Naughtin - Co. Kerry, Ireland
Rowan/Rowand - Renfrew, Scotland
Mortley - Kent, England
Giles/Jilles - Hastings, Sussex, England

Offline seaweed

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Re: Sloop Research/Drowned master/Ship Logs - Co. Kerry, Ireland & Liverpool
« Reply #1 on: Friday 28 February 14 11:50 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to roots chat.
Maritime records before the 1840's are sparse indeed and on line databases more so. Neither Lloyd's register of 1824-1827 or Lloyd's list 1747-1837 which reported on maritime losses makes mention of Gage or CATHERINE AND ANNE
https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/lloydslist/
A search of  the original Lloyd's lists at Guildhall Library may give you some clues but as the vessel and cargo were not lost I doubt there will be little than you already know from the newspaper report.
Do you know the home port of CATHERINE AND ANNE? If so there may be some indication in the series BT98 at the National Archives at Kew. If it was Liverpool then you have some chance.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_aq=&_ep=liverpool&_or1=&_or2=&_or3=&_nq1=&_nq2=&_nq3=&_sd=1826&_ed=1826&_col=0&_sw=ref&_cr1=bt98&_cr2=&_cr3=&_ps=15&_ro=any&_rd=&_rsd=&_red=&_fr=&_st=adv

Why was this incident reported in the Sussex Advertiser.

 The Bury and Norwich Post: Or, Suffolk and Norfolk Telegraph, Essex, Cambridge, & Ely Intelligencer (Bury Saint Edmunds, England), Wednesday, January 04, 1826; Issue 2271.

Gives a list of Subscriber's to The Suffolk  Association for Saving the Lives of Shipwrecked Seamen.
There is a Robert Gage of Rookwood mentioned. Rookwood I understand is in Sussex. maybe searching the Sussex records may help.
Why the mention of Co. Kerry in your subject title?
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022

Offline AmyLB

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Re: Sloop Research/Drowned master/Ship Logs - Co. Kerry, Ireland & Liverpool
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 01 March 14 02:10 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for the warm welcome and helpful guidance.

I found the article in the Sussex Advertiser, but I suspect it was picked up by them. Perhaps they shared news from the region? Or highlights from their 'sister' papers? The bottom of the article references the Dublin Morning Register. My guess is that would be the original source, but I haven't seen it.

If you've looked at newspapers from the 1800s you know that "articles" stream from one to the next in column format. I don't know newspaper terminology, but I'd say that the byline/header for the article ("titled" Melancholy Catastrophe) I'm looking at indicates the location of article orginated in Tralee. Both Tralee, and the mentioned Blennerville location of the owner HICKSON, are in County Kerry. I believe that GAGE was from Co. Kerry and that he was sailing from there to Liverpool.

My guess is that the home port for the Catherine and Anne was Tralee or even Blennerville.

I'm not familiar with Lloyd's register. Does it only apply to English vessels and ports? Is there a corollary register for Irish vessels? Do you have any other ideas on where/how to research Gage's career and Hickson's ownership?

Thrilled by your help. Thank you.
Amy
Gage - Co. Kerry, Ireland
Naughten/Naughton/Naughtin - Co. Kerry, Ireland
Rowan/Rowand - Renfrew, Scotland
Mortley - Kent, England
Giles/Jilles - Hastings, Sussex, England

Offline seaweed

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Re: Sloop Research/Drowned master/Ship Logs - Co. Kerry, Ireland & Liverpool
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 02 March 14 13:00 GMT (UK) »
Like I said. Maritime records before the 1840's are very sparse.
 The Merchant Shipping Act (1786) required all British ships (Irish ships would have been regarded as British) of more than 15 tons to register with Customs in their home port. A copy, known as a transcript of each entry was sent to the Custom House in London or Edinburgh.
In 1814, A fire in the London Custom House destroyed all the early transcripts sent from other ports.
For instance. Crew Agreements for Tralee vessels only survive from 1847 . I suspect Blennerville vessels would be registered in Tralee.
Lloyds Register would cover Irish registered ships but the Data was collected from owners and many did not bother to supply the information.
I have attached a link to Lloyds Register 1825 just in case I missed something.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ojUSAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0Ftz6zT302-gFzEJxA5c6C&lr=#v=onepage&q&f=false
I should imagine that CATHERINE AND ANNE was a small coasting vessel employed in the Ireland, West coast of England Trade and as such her comings and goings would attract little attention.
I would contact the Maritime Museum of Ireland, Kerry County Museum  Liverpool Maritime Museum and Liverpool Customs House to see what records they have.
PS Checked vessel named ANNE AND CATHERINE with no result.

Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022


Offline AmyLB

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Re: Sloop Research/Drowned master/Ship Logs - Co. Kerry, Ireland & Liverpool
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 02 March 14 20:01 GMT (UK) »
I appreciate these ideas! That's exactly what I was hoping for ... some guidance on what records were required and when/where they might be.

Thank you so much.
Gage - Co. Kerry, Ireland
Naughten/Naughton/Naughtin - Co. Kerry, Ireland
Rowan/Rowand - Renfrew, Scotland
Mortley - Kent, England
Giles/Jilles - Hastings, Sussex, England