John McGilvray/ McGillvray

[Suz73]

I'm looking for any information on John McGillvray born abt 1821 Dysart, fife married 1840 to Agnes (Keay) born abt 1815 Dysart, fife I know they came to Australia and have found most of the family after these 2 but I keep hitting a brick wall trying to find Johns parents. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Suz73]

I do have possible birth dates for John 1 October 1817 and Agnes 11 May 1815 but these don't match up with the 1841/51 Scotland census. Their Children are
Agnes Duncan McGillivray  28 Oct 1837 in  Dysart, fife
ISABELLA MCGILLIVRAY 4 Dec 1841 in  Dysart, Fife, Scotland
John McGillivray  8 Mar 1844 in  Kirkaldy, fife
James McGilvray 19 SEP 1849 in  Abbotshall, Kikcaldy, Fyfeshire, Scotland
Mary McGillivray  4 Mar 1851 in  Abbotshall, fife

They all arrived in Australia in 1853.

[loobylooayr]

Hi Suz,
Have you looked on Scotlands People at the original marriage record? Often the Old Parish Records just record the couples names but on occassions there can be extra nuggets of information which can help.
Looby

[Suz73]

Hi Looby,
This is what I have so far:

[Suz73]

Baptisms were registered in 1852 Abbotshall before they left for Australia. Wondering if the last 2 aren't Mum & Dad and their parents??

[AMBLY]

Hi Suz

The 1st daughter...was actually born abt 3 years before John & Agnes married? Perhaps she wasn't the natural child of John - the 1841 Census tends to indicate as much?

1841: Philps Close, Dysart
John McGILVARY 20, Flax Dresser
Agnes McGILVARY 30,
Agnes DUNCAN 4

If we only look at the children born AFTER the marriage we get a naming pattern to consider:

Isabella (1st daughter)
John (1st Son)
James (2nd Son)
Mary (2nd daughter)

Which very nicely fits the traditional naming pattern, per  the two older persons being baptised in 1852………that is:
1st dau & 2nd son - parents of Wife
1st son & 2nd dau - parents of Husband

I do agree those 2 late-life baptisms are very likely to be your John & Agnes, getting themselves all ready to immigrate -  perhaps some official  proof of their birth being required.

And I still think that  - even though there 'healthy' gaps in  which other children could have been born, who may have died soon after birth, or pregnancies which did not go to term:
between 1 & 2 (2yrs, 3mths)
between 3 &  4 (5 yrs 6mths)

Looking at the 1851 Census (FREECEN)   Agnes is 36 (born abt 1815) so no conflict there with the baptism stated birthdate.  John is age 30 in the Census (born abt 1821), which is abt 4 yrs 'out', not too wildly out -  what dates etc do you have for him in Australian records?

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

I see they  arrived in Melbourne 15 May 1853, out of Liverpool, on the ship "Sea" or "Dea"
McGILLVRAY
John (b abt 1818)
Agnes (b abt 1816)
Agnes (b abt 1838)
Isabel (b abt 1842)
John (b abt 1845)
James (b abt 1850)
Mary (b abt 1852)

Both Scottish Census have Agnes a fair bit older than her husband John.
But both the baptisms of the adult John and the John on the passenger list have a birthdate around 1817/1818, slightly older only -  Perhaps John needed to be under a certain age to qualify for assisted immigration?

Australian Death Index:
Agnes McGILVARY
Died 1866 in Victoria, age 55 (born abt 1811)
Father: James KAY
Mother:  Arabella BRIAD

Her age at death is abt 5 yrs off, but otherwise this fits with the 1852 baptism (note, the mother is highly unlikely to be 'Arabella' - not is Scotland, in Dysart in that time !)

Cheers
AMBLY

[Suz73]

You have exactly what I have!!  I have all the info on Son James!!
James McGilvray
Birth 19 SEP 1849 in  Abbotshall, Kikcaldy, Fyfeshire, Scotland   Death 17 NOV 1925 in  Allan's Flat, Victoria, Australia  Married Susan Withers 6 Children!! 
 Daughter Isabella
4 Dec 1841 in  Dysart, Fife, Scotland Married Charles Elgar 10 children.  The rest is a mystery!!

[loobylooayr]

Hi again,
Would agree that Agnes Duncan aged 4 on 1841 Census is most likely Agnes snr's illegitmate daughter or a daughter born to an earlier marriage.

There is another family on the 1841 which may be of interest.

High Street, Dysart,

McGULLVERY John       age 50     Carter         born Fife
McGullvery Mary                     age 40                       born Fife
McGullvery Archibald               age 15      Flax Dresser  born Fife
McGullvery Elisabeth               age 15                         born Fife
McGullvery William                  age 5                           born Fife
McGullvery Andrew                 age 5                           born Fife

McGullvery /McGillvray could both be the same

Looby