Herbert Rippon. Transported for Life but came back home

[majm]

I am not sure, BUT ...... I think that some of the long standing LIFERS were transported on the 1863 Clyde .....  Here's a link to an index

http://www.historyaustralia.org.au/twconvic/Clyde+1863 

Scrolling down, there's several lifers trials in  1850, 1851, on that 1863 voyage...       

Cheers,  JM

[Dundee]

That agrees with Australian Convict Index, 1788-1868 - so his age doesn't fit either.

Herbert Rippon
born 1814
Year:   1851
Trial Place:   Deraby
State:   WA
Status:   M
Ship:   Clyde
Occupation:   Smith

This year of birth is incorrect.  Herbert was 37 when he was transported in 1863, not when he was tried in 1851.

Many convicts were transported after having already served part of their sentence in England; notably the exiles transported in the '40s and '50s.  By 1863 they were simply clearing out the gaols and providing WA with much needed labour.  I see that William GENTLE had already spent 10 years in Bermuda before going to WA on the Clyde.

They were usually given a ticket of leave on arrival so that they could be independant and work for themselves, and were then given conditional pardons.  Unfortunately for WA this meant that many left for the eastern states and so defeated the purpose.  Of course they didn't know at that stage that there was gold in them thar hills. 

As for returning home, I think that the care factor was pretty low getting on to the 1870s and would have been very difficult to police with so many immigrants coming and going.  If Herbert went home almost 20 years after being convicted there possibly weren't too many people still around to notice, and who would bother going into the details of what sort of pardon he received?

Debra 

[Onese]

Thanks for all the posts, info and idea's.

The Freemantle Prison record DoB is at odds with the Clyde's 1863 record for Convict 7235 which shows him as being 37 during the voyage. Joseph & Lydia christened a boy Herbert in Ecclesall in 1827 so he should have been 36/7 at this time. He was a Sickle Smith in High Lane prior to his crime, which shows on the prison record. Conviction date at Derby matches exact.

Thirteen years between conviction and transporting is strange but partner in crime George Harrison was 12 years before being transported on the Norwood.

The Clyde shows he was married but no children. I had him married to a Sarah Ann Harrison in 1847. In 1851 when Herbert was in Derby Prison, there was a Sarah Rippon, 3 children and a SiL with no husband in High Lane. She was listed as a Pauper. Have not really looked further into this yet but this is my next quest. Want to keep on trail of Herbert at this time.

Out of interest, if you are able to look at the 1841 census slide for the Joseph, Lydia and son Herbert Rippon in High Lane, on the left page there are White Lane records. Note that there is a family called Harrison with children George and Sarah.

Can find no matching records for Herbert Rippon born Little Common or Ecclesall between 1847 and 1871 other than these criminal and transportation records.

The 1881 Herbert Rippon, 53, born Little Common, living in White Lane with Ellen Hague 22 is definitely our GGF.  Grave stone tells me so. Have not found a marriage record for them even though she is shown as Ellen Rippon on GF birth certificate. She is Ellen Hague on Herbert's death certificate.

The 1871 Herbert Rippon, 43, born Ecclesall, living in High Lane with widowed mother Lydia is almost certainly the same man. It would seem that if he did come back from Australia, Sarah had not waited for him. Probably, a very sad tale awaits me.

Hope this clears up a few things.

Still hoping for proof of Herbert Rippon in Australia after 1871 or return journey details.

[groom]

If Herbert was in prison for 12 years before being transported and then sent off for "life", it isn't surprising that Sarah didn't wait for him, she probably thought she'd never see him again.

What a dreadful time he must have had, conditions in prison at that time weren't good, but conditions aboard the ships going to Australia were even worse, especially as his voyage took about 8 months. Given all that, you'd think he'd have kept out of trouble on his return.

[Onese]

Hi Groom.

Almost certain that the later 1881 wounding conviction was our GGF.

If he was the same Herbert Rippon that was transported, you would have thought he would have kept out of trouble and it would seem that the 19th century penal system didn't have the intended effect.

Luckily for me, it hasn't come through in the genes and my wife is as honest as a day is long. 

[Neil Todd]

I don't know much about the transports to Western Australia for crimes other than they were very different to the early ones to the eastern Colonies. It was possible that after his 15year sentence he would have been a free man and as he received a conditional pardon around 1864 and would have been a free man 1866 he may have been able to find transport back to England. Unfortunatly finding a shipping record would be nigh impossible as he probably went as crew.

His early marriage to Sarah Harrison would normally have been able to be disolved as a life sentence "over the seas" was for the most part a valid disolution of marriage in the eyes of the law. Having said that, prisoners I believe could petition the government for their wife and children to go over with them as this fitted with what the government was attempting to achieve, populating the new colony of WA.

There is a few deaths noted on WA bdm none for a Sarah Rippon but two possible for a Sarah Harrison and a few deaths of possible Rippon Children but impossible to tell who as no parents listed. No marriages for Rippon either.

See: http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx

Neil

Side note. One of my ex employers was a Rippon by marriage and as far as they knew, they were not able to establish a tie for their ancestors anywhere There is also a marriage into my family line in the early 1840's in North Yorkshire of a Rippon.

[Onese]

Hi Neil

Thanks for your useful comments and research. Will try to have a look myself.

Re your aside about links to North Yorks Rippon's, you may find this site of interest if you are able to tie in to any branches of this very extensively researched tree. The tree found on page 12 shows Joseph & Lydia in line 7. Herbert should be in line 8 before Ellis but was not shown.

Happy hunting 

Hope these hyperlinks work

http://www.rippon.net/familyhistory/

http://www.rippon.net/familyhistory/History2005.pdf

[Onese]

Further re disolved marriage to Sarah Rippon (Harrison), just re-examed the records - the census record states that he was Married when living just with his mother in 1871.

Again in 1881, he was recorded as Married even though Ellen was still Hague. She had a 3 year old son Frank Hague and the a 1 year old Herbert Rippon Hague.

So it appears that a previous marriage for Herbert was still active at these times.

It's only talking it over and your suggestions that made me realise this 

In 1861, Herbert's parents had a grandson Samuel in their house who was a match for one of husbandless Sarah Rippon's children.

Think it is time for me to start to look for Sarah Rippon / Harrison and the two other children in the UK.

[groom]

Again in 1881, he was recorded as Married even though Ellen was still Hague. She had a 3 year old son Frank Hague and the a 1 year old Herbert Rippon Hague.

That name's a pretty good clue as to who the father was.