When & where did George Fulwar Llewellyn Craven arrive in Australia

[Westy11]

Hi

A talk ask I fear but asked on the off chance.

I am looking for the shipping details for George Fulwar Llewellyn Craven.  George was born 17 Jan 1875 in Glamorganshire, Wales.

He married in 1899 in Maryborough, Queensland in 1899. George died in Gallipoli 29 June 1915 about 2½ months after he embarked from Brisbane.

I do not know when George left England for Australia and the last date I have him so far is 1881 England Census.  He was abt 6 yrs old then....

I have a possible date for his arrival in Queensland on board 'Tara' as 14 Aug 1893 but the record does not state from whence he departed.  Name provided was F L Craven so it is debatable if this is George.

Unfortunately this is all that I have on George as it applies to this post.

Westy11

[majm]

There’s a George Fulwar Llewellyn CRAVEN who enlisted for service in the AIF in WWI was born near the town of Menangle, in the Burnett District of Queensland as per his AIF papers.   He was aged 40 3/12 years, a station hand.  His next of kin was his wife, Mabel Ellen CRAVEN.   That chap embarked on HMAT “Kyarra” 16 April 1915 and died of wounds received in action, 29 June 1915, on the Hospital Ship “Sicilia”

  Are you sure your chap was born in WALES ?   .....  The above info is from several of the 52 pages of his service record, digitised at the National Archives of Australia website.

I am looking for the shipping details for George Fulwar Llewellyn Craven.  George was born 17 Jan 1875 in Glamorganshire, Wales.
He married in 1899 in Maryborough, Queensland in 1899. George died in Gallipoli 29 June 1915 about 2½ months after he embarked from Brisbane.

ADD, "He was 41 when he died.  His father was the late Captain Fulwar John Colquit CRAVEN (Grenadier Guard of Brockhampton Park, Cheltenham, England"  as per letter from his widow on his AIF file.

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx  (B2455, CRAVEN G F L )

ADD
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15577997 SMH 28 July 1915


Cheers,  JM

[majm]

The 1899 wedding  .... many many details  A Fashionable Wedding

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/148141971 Maryborough Chronicle, Wide Bay and Burnett Advertiser  3 March 1899

Cheers,  JM

[Westy11]

Hi JM

I inadvertently hit the wrong button and did not finish my reply nor am I sure it was posted.  So in the event neither occurred please accept this as the response.

Yes I am definitely sure George was born in Wales and in particular Merthyr Mawr in Glamorganshire, Wales. I have a number of pieces of evidence that support this position.  I too noticed the inconsistencies in George's service records.

I have my fingers crossed someone will be able to assist with George's arrival in Australia? 

Kind regards

Westy11

[majm]

The thing is, the info on his AIF papers is info HE provided, so it is first hand info.   What info did he provide on his marriage cert?   I understand that he would have given his place of birth, his age, his occupation, and details about his parents to the clergyman for inclusion on that document too.   

First hand info is usually more reliable that second or third hand info.   But do you know why he would have given incorrect info when enlisting, despite giving his wife's details as his next of kin...  To me it does not make sense to give correct info for n o k, but incorrect info for place of birth ... particularly as you have his birth being half a world away....

Cheers,  JM

[cupoflife]

There’s a George Fulwar Llewellyn CRAVEN who enlisted for service in the AIF in WWI was born near the town of Menangle, in the Burnett District of Queensland as per his AIF papers.   He was aged 40 3/12 years, a station hand.  His next of kin was his wife, Mabel Ellen CRAVEN.   That chap embarked on HMAT “Kyarra” 16 April 1915 and died of wounds received in action, 29 June 1915, on the Hospital Ship “Sicilia”

  Are you sure your chap was born in WALES ?   .....  The above info is from several of the 52 pages of his service record, digitised at the National Archives of Australia website.

ADD, "He was 41 when he died.  His father was the late Captain Fulwar John Colquit CRAVEN (Grenadier Guard of Brockhampton Park, Cheltenham, England"  as per letter from his widow on his AIF file.

Cheers,  JM

Death Qld BDM
1922 F1950 George Fulwar Llewellyn Craven; Father-Fulwar John Colquitt Craven; Mother-Sarah Llewellyn Dillwyn   

[majm]

I think that 1922 registration with the 'F' is the Qld Government's registrations to ensure those who enlisted in Qld in the AIF and who did not return, were able to have their deceased estates sorted without un-necessary delays...  "F" for Fallen....  I think WWII chaps were 'S'

https://www.qld.gov.au/law/births-deaths-marriages-and-divorces/family-history-research/information-and-how-to-access-and-order-records/family-history-research-codes/


I noticed that UK's GRO has a registration for 1875 for a George F L CRAVEN.     When the NSW BDM commenced civil registrations, it was possible for births to be registered in NSW even if the baby was NOT born in NSW.   That is, say a baby had been born 'overseas' up to 18 months previous.  His parents arrive in the British colony of N S Wales, and register his birth in the NSW registrar general's records.     I wonder if a similar arrangement existed in Wales, United Kingdom in that earlier era? 

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=660501.0

       http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12980625
SMH 15 Feb 1856 The short version of the requirements for Civil Registrations of BDMs …. “furnish books for the registry of births, marriages, deaths and forms for certified copies…..  The District Registrars are to transmit their copies quarterly to the office of the Registrar General…… Parent required to register the birth of a child within sixty days,  housekeepers to give notice of  the death of any person on their premises within thirty days …”Children may be registered upon solemn declaration of their parentage until they are eighteen months old, if not born in the colony”   Ministers of religion are to receive certificates of the registration of deaths when they attend funerals.  ….


Cheers,  JM 

[Westy11]

Hello JM

I have no idea why George gave incorrect information on enlistment.  It is not as if he was uneducated as this was not the case.  The only reason I can even think of was that perhaps there was some issue with him enlisting in an Australian army as a British subject??? There may have been some issue between him and his siblings given their parents divorced with decree nisi granted in 1886 but as said initially no real idea at all.  I suppose it may remain a mystery

Cupoflife - I saw that as well and I have to say that I am confused. Maybe that date of death has something to do when the War Office finally provided a death certificate?? Everything I have said George died at Gallopili.  To add to the confusion I was unable to locate a Menangle in Queensland but did locate one in NSW?

Westy11 

It really is a mystery to me and hope we may be able to sort it out. 

[Westy11]

Hello JM

Missed your reply before I posted mine.  Neither of George's parents came to Australia. George's father Fulwar John Colquitt Craven died in 1890 at Brockhampton Park and his mother, Sarah Llewellyn Dillwyn died in 1893 in Coventry. 

Thanks so much for the info on the date of death as this explains this apparent anomaly and in part may explain why he gave a different birth location but his correct date of birth??? 

Westy11