Great Barr roads 1800

[Trees]

Does any one know if New John Street and Brickiln Street were in Great Barr in the early 1800s please?

[Ruskie]

If you look at google maps, New John Street is near the centre of Birmingham. Great Barr is quite a long way north half way to Walsall. It used to be a village but has been swallowed up by the metropolis.

I don't know about Brickiln St.

Where did you find the street names? Census?

[Ruskie]

I see there is a New John St in Halesowen too. That's even further away from Great Barr. 

Found a Brickiln St in Walsall - miles from Great Barr.

There may have been other New John and Brickiln Streets in the 1800s, so it might help to the context of these street names.

[Trees]

Many thanks that knocks one theory on the head so at least i know I need to think again.
I have a lady who on the 1851 and 1861 census was from Birmingham and on the 1861 from Great Barr I know ahe lived in the two streets i have mentioned so wondered if she was really born in Birmingham but said she was from Gt Barr being a place she had lived But not if those streets aren't  in Great Bar Any idea if the Great Barr records are on line have I somehow missed a suitable marriage in Great Barr I wonder
  Trees

[Ruskie]

So your person gives conflicting places of birth on several censuses? Does she say Birmingham on two censuses and Great Barr on another? Sometimes people gave the name of the nearest large town as place of birth rather than a small village.

The population of Great Barr back then was quite small:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/GreatBarr/index.html

Something else to consider - possible border changes and when they were introduced. I don't know dates but as Great Barr was on the Warwickshire border, it may have been encorporated into Warwickshire at some stage.

I know FindMyPast has just released some Staffordshire records. I looked for the birth of one of my ancestors who said she was born in Great Barr, but couldn't find her. I think there have been limited records released, and don't think Great Barr is included, but you might like to double check as I may be wrong.

Is it her birth that you are trying to find, or her marriage? Have you asked for help tracing this person? If you give some names, places, dates etc someone may be able to help you. 

Added: Just found this on another thread which gives dates and parishes released for Staffordshire on FindMyPast:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/staffordshire-parish-records-coverage?_ga=1.123478860.696593251.1402092369

[dionysus]

Hmm!  I notice it says Ogley Hay with Brownhills, St. James 1559-1876, but parish only created 1850!  And baptisms do start 1850.

[Trees]

Thanks Ruski you are giving plenty of food for thought.
My problem is I just have too many and not enough Joseph and Mary BIRD s
My Joseph and Mary have 6 children baptised in St Martin Birmingham between 1816 and 1828
Joseph died before the 1841 census Mary is this one
1841 HO107/1143/ 9 fo45 p15
1851 HO107/2062 fo 83 p14
1861 RG9/2183 fo 81 p18

My ancestor is the  Caroline on the 1841 census her sister  Ann Ray also on that census witnessed her marriage and she is with son George  on all three censuses so I am sure this is the right Mary
and that she must have been born about 1786
I have the baptisms for the children in St Martins and some with addresses Joseph was a bone and ivory turner think his burial  is;
BURIALS in the Parish of St Philip Birmingham   Warwick in the Year 1839
981   Joseph BIRD   John Street   29th May   48 years   C Arnold
   (Buried at St Barthws Chapel)   <St Bartholomew’s Chapel>
The only worry with that is that three of the children are baptised in St Martins in 1840 address Brickiln Street the one before them was George who was baptised in St Martins in 1822 when they were living in new John Street I have no idea why the last three were baptised so late or why Joseph would be buried in St Bartholemews rather than St Martins but if it is the correct burial it makes sense that this is Joseph son of John and Betty baptised in St Phillips in 1791 also his first daughter was names Betsy.
There was a John baptised in 1811 in St Martins but no details of address or father's occupation and with a five year gap to Betsey;s birth I can;t be sure if this john is one of the family.There are two Joseph and Mary marriages in 1805 and 1806 too early for my Mary and either could be parents of the John
There is a couple marrying in 1810 in Harborne but that Mary Allin seems to be born in 1783 in Harborne (I think they had children in West bromwich) and a Joseph marrying a Mary Ann RAY in 1812 but they are the ones who live in Sutton Coldfield he being a wire drawer. Curiously they relate to the Ann Ray nee Bird  of my family.
There are marriages for several Joseph and Mary couples which one by one have been eliminated
So that is the present situation I need a marriage to find out who Mary was.
Where can I see West Bromwich records are they on line yet? I have Ann BIRD and Thomas RAY's marriage from Free BMD its in West Bromwich district finding the details of that would be useful
Trees

[dionysus]

Same page as 1841 Birckiln St is Staniforth Street and today there is a street of that name on west side of the A38 more or less opposite Aston University.  These were in the parish of St Mary and there is a church of St Mary at Whittall Street which runs along the south side of the law courts south of Queensway.  No Brickiln St now, but much redevelopment will have taken place since 1841.  Sure enough, going the other way in the 1841 census is Lancaster Street (B4114), which as obviously not the place it was back then.

Baptism at St Martin could, perhaps, be a family tradition from living in that area previously?

Anyway, hope this helps with the general area.  Looks like you will need an old map to find Brickiln Street.

Good hunting
Dion

[Trees]

Now that is interesting i wonder why I missed that Some of the Ray?Rea families I've been looking at lived in Staniforth Street so its definitely family area
many thanks
I need to take another look at the Bird REAY marriage and make sure it really has been eliminated correctly but it does look good for the Wiredrawer in Sutton Coldfield

added no everything checks out with the Sutton Coldfied Joseph and Mary Ann
hey ho on with the chase