John McIntosh/Chritina Fraser

[jcarson]

Hello.  I am trying to find out more information regarding my gg grandfather and gg grandmother and have met with large amounts of conflicting information.
According to the information I can find John McIntosh was born in Nairnshire (area?) around 1825 and married Christina Fraser b Aberdeen around 1827.  Despite the birth certificates of their children (all but one Australian born) state that they were married in Aberdeen in 1852 I can only locate a record in Glasgow late December 1851 (banns?). Is this possible - banns in Glasgow but marrying in Aberdeen?
The daughter, Jane, born around 1852/1853 before emigration to Australia in 1853 on the 'Tasmania', has no birth record that can be found.
Confusing information on emigration record, where occupation is listed as Draper, when he appears to have worked as a builder/carpenter in his time in Australia.  Census record possibly have him as a lodger in Glasgow in 1851 (but cannot be certain they are the same person). 
Australian Death certificate lists parents as Donald McIntosh (farmer?) and Christina (nee Campbell).  Also no records can be located with this pairing.
If anyone can assist or point me in the right direction it would be appreciated.

[rosie17]

Scotlands Select Marriages
John McIntosh Male
Marriage place and date 14th December 1851 Glasgow Lanark
Spouse Christina Fraser
This is the only one I could find 

[rosie17]

There is an immigration record for a John McIntosh b1825 and Christina & ? McIntosh
Arrival date October 1853 Melbourne Australia his occupation was Draper
Ship name Samaria which I see is different from your one

I seen this in the 1851 census 9, Guildry Court Glasgow
John McIntosh b 1827 Inverness occupation tailor living with a Hugh & Margaret McDougal
Relationship  nephew

[AMBLY]

Hi

The Glasgow 'marriage' is more than most likely, the Banns called in the Parish where John was domiciled at the time (but not necessarily where he was born).  If Christina was from Aberdeen and/or her natal family were still there (ie: the family home), even if she herself was in Service outside of Aberdeen at the time leading up to her marriage,   and if in the  Australian records John & Christina themselves state they married in Aberdeen - then that is most likely the case; the record of it may not have survived, or be found  but   Aberdeen is most likely Christina's Parish.

It may be worth getting the Glasgow record, though. No guarantees, but the transcripts we see don't always include all the information that was on the original document!  On one of my (illegitimately born) gg-grandmother's baptisms in Fife (1830), the priest had  helpfully written not only the name & abode of the 'natural father' but also the  name  and abode of the unwed mother's father.

It was common for emigrants to change their trade in the new country - though to be fair, a Draper or a Tailor, was skill one was often apprenticed for. Maybe he liked working with his hands!

What were the full names and birth order of all their children?
The Scottish naming pattern was often strongly adhered to.  In this manner, Christina's mother may well have been named Jane (or variant).
Do any Australian records state the occupation of John's father?

Cheers
AMBLY

[jcarson]

Thanks to all.

Rosie17 - I agree with the date and information that you have found except for the long walk from Aberdeen to Glasgow.  It is possible of course. The ship that the emigrated on was definitely the 'Tasmania' and not the Sarmaria (this ship was not built until after 1853) Ship confirmed from actual scanned document.

Hi Ambly.  I tend to agree with you about the Glasgow marriage (the only thing that is bothering me is that birth's registered by both John and Christina separately have the marriage in 1852 and in Aberdeen).

The children in order Jane (born prior to emigration as listed on ships passengers (first name not mentioned), Margaret Ann (died at 2yrs), Christina, Jessie Sophia (no info can be found but apparently still alive at 27yrs when John died), Frederick Bury (died at 35 and my great grandfather) & lastly John Gibson.

Unfortunately I am coming across so many John McIntosh's and Christina Fraser that is making it very hard to narrow down where I should be looking.

Census records have both a John McIntosh (and a James) and a Christina Fraser as lodgers (different establishments) in Glasgow in 1851 (found through FreeCen - I think :-/) John is listed as a Joiner here, much more towards the Oz occupation. This is my possible gut feel about the Glasgow marriage anyway.  Prior to that I am leaning towards Cawdor where the 1841 has a John & James McIntosh with the same age difference as the 1851 census. A Christina Fraser did exist in Aberdeen in 1851 census, but no record in prior or post census - and not sure whether it gels with the worker status that I think my forebears on the McIntosh were!

John's death certificate states that his father, Donald, was a farmer (it is very difficult to read).

What is the best way of being able to obtain the marriage certificate from Glasgow?  Sorry, very new to this and I am finding it really difficult to find how to obtain scans of these documents.

Again, you all have been very helpful and thanks.

[rosie17]

You can look up the Old Parish Registers www.scotlandspeople where you will be able to download the entry ..Sometimes there is not much information but you might be lucky.. if you have not used this site before you can buy credits for £ 7.00 it will use 1 credit to search and 5 credits to view the entry

[rosie17]

I see a death registration for Christina Belot age 83years died Yarra South Victoria 1941 father John Mcintosh mother Ctina Frazer
Christina married a Alfred John Belot in  1880 Victoria ( not sure if you had this information )

[loobylooayr]

Hi,
Thought this Christina looked interesting -
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1D2-729
Christian Fraser - born to Alex Fraser and Jane Ross at Nairn 22/6/1825

Think this is the Family on 1841 Census - Nairn , High Street
Alexander Fraser        age 55        Merchant         born outside Census county
Jean Fraser                age 50                              born  Nairn
Christina Fraser          age 15                              born Nairn
John Fraser                age 12                              born Nairn
Margaret Fraser          age 10                              born Nairn
George Low                age 20  Teacher of Dancing  born outside Census county


And this could be Christina in 1851 (you may have this record)-
Glasgow, Stirling Road (St. David's parish)
Holmes       Mary       Head       M       F       44       Lodging House Keeper        Dunbartonshire - Cumbernauld
Holmes Robert A       Son       U       M       8       Scholar        Lanarkshire - Glasgow           
McNaughtan       Janet       Servnt       U       F       16       House Servant        Lanarkshire - Glasgow           
Wilson       William       Lodger       U       M       18       Clerk In A Counting House        Ayrshire - Mauchline           
Cochran    John       Lodger       U       M       40       Manufacturer        Renfrewshire - Kilbarchan           
Robertson       John       Lodger       U       M       25       Jeweller        Inverness-shire - Inverness           
Robertson       Catherine       Lodger       U       F       16       Milliner        Inverness-shire - Inverness           
FRASER    John       Lodger       U       M       23       Cabinet Maker        Nairn - Nairn           
FRASER    Christina       Lodger       U       F       25       Milliner        Nairn - Nairn           


Christina's position as a Milliner would mean she could easily come into contact with a young draper/tailor. I know her place of birth is not Aberdeen?? but felt it worth drawing her to your attention.
Looby 

[jcarson]

Thanks Rosie17 & Loobylooayr

Firstly, Rosie - The Christina Belot is the 3rd child of John & Christina. I may have to see if I can establish contact with any of her descendants to see if they have some historical information. 

The problem with my direct line is that Frederick Bury died at 35 in 1896, his wife Pamela remarries but dies in 1902 at 34.  Their daughter, my grandmother and the eldest, was maybe 5 when FB died and 10 when her mother dies.  She then appears to have developed a very strong relationship with her stepfathers family and not with the McIntosh side.  Therefore there are no stories,  pictures, anecdotes coming down directly.  My father knows very little about his mother's side of the family and hence this search.

Loobylooayr - yes I have seen both records.  I have strongly considered the second record as it may be where the 'draper' comes from.  To me that occupation is quite a large anomaly, possibly because I am not joining the right dots 

It is one of the reasons I have been trying to establish information regarding Jane, their first daughter, as I thought it would give some clues, but her birth does not seem to have been registered... or could have been lost.... born on the way to Liverpool to emigrate...

I will upload the birth certificate of Margaret Ann because John's birthplace looks like Nardon (no such place?) and not Nairnshire like on later records - this birth was registered by Christina.

Thanks