Merchant Navy Apprentices?

[Romilly]

Would anyone on here know...

Were any records kept for Apprentices joining The Merchant Navy in the 1900's. (Before WW1).

I recently came across this snippet from 'The South Wales Post' Newspaper; which concerns my late Father, Evan Douglas Wilson:

http://papuraunewyddcymru.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/4110420/ART73/evan%20douglas%20wilson

It would seem from this that on leaving School, he initially worked in the 'Reporter's Dept' of that paper before leaving to become an Apprentice in The Merchant Navy. I know that he spent several years working for 'The Taylor and Sanderson Steam Shipping Company' before joining the RNR in 1916/'17.

If any records still exist, would they be in the papers relating to this Company at Kew? Or would I need to consult Ship's Logs and Crew Lists, etc? (I know that one of their Ships that he was on was 'The John Sanderson'.

Cheers, Romilly.

[seaweed]

You would need to look at the following at Kew.
BT150 Index of Apprentices 1824-1953
BT151 Apprentices Indentures 1845-1950 Only ever 5th year has been preserved but you may be lucky.
There are some details of the Sunderland based company Taylor and Sanderson in BT 31/16272/63792 but as far as I can see they do not relate to employee records.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?name=Search&_aq=&_ep=&_or1=&_or2=&_or3=&_nq1=&_nq2=&_nq3=&_cr1=BT+31%2F16272%2F63792&_cr2=&_cr3=&_dss=range&_sd=&_ed=&_hb=&_ro=any&_rd=&_rsd=&_red=&_st=adv&_rv=
I think your best bet is to consult Crew Agreements and Logbooks JOHN SANDERSON O/N 95284

[Romilly]

Many thanks for the most comprehensive answer Seaweed.

I knew that if anyone could point me in the right direction, it would be you!

All Best Wishes,
Romilly

[Romilly]

Since my last post, I have managed to find some more info on the 'John Sanderson':

The JOHN SANDERSON was hired by the Admiralty and served as a Royal Fleet Auxiliary in 1914-1919.  Some details about the career of this vessel can be found here: http://historicalrfa.org/requisitioned-auxiliaries/169-requisitioned-auxiliaries-j/1380-requisitioned-auxiliary-john-sanderson.

I've also had a reply from The National Maritime Museum to say that they don't hold any records on this ship:

'Usually the crews of Royal Fleet Auxiliary (RFA) vessels were signed on by a mercantile agreement and these sometimes survive among the Board of Trade records of British-registered merchant vessels.  Unfortunately, the JOHN SANDERSON isn’t represented in the crew agreements from the year 1915 in the National Maritime Museum collection.  There is nothing for Official No 95284 in the box covering the number range 95270 to 95319'.

'There is a Board of Trade logbook for the JOHN SANDERSON from the year 1914 in the BT 165 series at TNA: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1732500

They also say that 'some crew records for the JOHN SANDERSON from the period 1912-1916 do exist at the Maritime History Archive (MHA) in Newfoundland.

However, I've tried searching the MHA website: https://www.mun.ca/mha/and keep getting a '0' Result... Am I doing something wrong?

Romilly.

[HMac]

Hello Romilly,

Search by ship's official number 95284.

https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=95284

I presume you already have his RNR record. His awards were the 1914-15 Star, The Victory Medal and British War Medal.

Regards
Hugh

[Romilly]

Hello Hugh,

Thanks for the reply.

I've now had a reply from Newfoundland, who say:

'Thank-you for your email of 4 February 2015 regarding the 'John Sanderson', ON 95284 for 1912-16.

 According to our index, we have that vessel's crew agreements for voyages terminating in 1912-14 and 1916. The crew agreements of voyage terminating in 1915 are likely held at the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich'.

They've sent me a list of estimated charges; which sound quite steep...
I'm wondering how much info Crew Agreements contain, - would they necessarily have much on individual crew members?

And yes thanks, - I already have my late Father's RNR Service Record and Medal Roll Entries.

Best Wishes, Romilly.

[HMac]

Hello Romilly,

Do you know what dates he served on JOHN SANDERSON?

Regarding what a Crew Agreement will tell you have a look here: the information is pre 1900 but the format was the same for your dates of interest.

https://www.mun.ca/mha/mlc/toolkit/agreements/foreign-going/?map=1

Regards
Hugh

[Romilly]

Hello Hugh,

Many thanks for the Crew Agreement sample, - much appreciated.

Yes, I have the exact dates that my Father served on the JOHN SANDERSON, as I have a Testimonial for him. (Attached). He was there from 7/6/1912 - 30/12/1916.

The Crew Agreements for that ship for 1915 seem to have gone AWOL, - as Greenwich, the NA & Newfoundland don't appear to have them.

Newfoundland have some for 1912/1914 and 1916, - but I don't want to order whole years, as too expensive. I might just try ordering one for 1912 and see what turns up...

Do you have any idea what time scale a Crew would be signed up for? I'm guessing that it would be months rather than whole years?

Cheers, Romilly.

[Romilly]

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