The Children of James Gilbert

[Greaves]

James Gilbert (c1838-1873) was my Great Great Grandfather. He married twice. His first marriage in 1859 was to Emma Frances Martin (1840-1861), with whom he had one child Emma (c1860-1925). His second marriage was to Harriet Mardell, with whom he had five children: Harriet Mary Ann (1864-1947), James William (1868-1918), James (1871-1933), Alfred James (1873-1932) and Alice (1875-1949). As far as I am aware, all of the children were born in the Tottenham/Edmonton area. I am having problems tracking down these children:

(1) I cannot find a birth certificate or baptism record for Emma.
(2) I cannot find proof of Emma's marriage in c1888 to Thomas Reed.
(3) A death certificate for James William, who seems to go by the name of William. I know from Soldiers Who Died in WW1 that he died 12 Jul 1918 in France and Flanders, but can't find the record.
(4) I cannot find a birth certificate or baptism record for Alice.
(5) James Gilbert senior disappears from the 1861 census, which coincides with the death of his first wife. Where was he?
(6) Emma is also absent from both the 1861 and 1871 censuses, but re-appears with the family for the 1881 census.
(7) A final problem relates to (James) William who disappears from the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses, possibly on military service. I am not sure if he ever married. I did find a James William who married in Hackney to Elizabeth Jenkins, but upon investigation this can't be my man, as his father was Thomas Gilbert not James Gilbert.

Any help much appreciated.

[avm228]

If Emma was born "c1860" might she in fact have been born in 1859 before the 14/8/1859 marriage (and thus as Martin?).

[Greaves]

Yes, I thought of that, but still can't find her. I'm a bit surprised, as James seems to have observed the "legal" norms with regard to marriage, unlike many other members of my family! And certainly some of his children were baptised.

[heywood]

Hello,

In 1871, Emma Mardell, 10 yrs, is living with her grandparents James and Mary.
Could that be Emma? She is listed as daughter to Harriett in 1881.

Regards
Heywood

[heywood]

Marriage

Emma Gilbert December 1888 Edmonton vol 3a pg 501

Thomas Reed as above but pg 601

Possibly mistranscribed 

Looking at the page, Thomas' should read 501

[Greaves]

Many thanks, this is making sense with sorting out Emma. It never occurred to me to look for her under her step-mother's name. Though it raises the question of who is Eliza, the other grand-daughter. She can't be Emma's full sister, as the first wife died in 1861.

Assuming this is Emma Martin/Gilbert in 1871, where was she and her father in 1861?

[heywood]

How do you know she is James and Emma's daughter? I am thinking she is Harriet's daughter.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/52067/GILBERT,%20W. Is this James William?

[JJen]

Possible birth of Emma -

Emma Eliza Mardell
Mar 1862, Edmonton Vol 3a Page 138

JJ

[heywood]

Birth
Emma Eliza Mardell March quarter 1862 Edmonton 3a, 138

as JJen has also found