Nottinghamshire challenge

[jantoz]

Can anyone please find the family of this enigma - William Hill. He is in the 1901 census with wife Mary Ann in Nottinghamshire, he is then in the 1911 census in Leicester with wife & children. Have looked at as many possible matches for him in the 1881 & 1891 censuses but none seem to fit. Someone suggested his mother could have remarried & he is listed under the stepfather's name & I have also tried to find him with this information but without success so far. I have his marriage certificate (1901) which lists his father's name as John Hill (Labourer) deceeased. But have been told there are no William Hills born 1873-74 with father John. Have hired 3 different reseachers & not one has found him. So my challenge is for anyone with good sleuthing abilities to find his family.
Janet

[chempat]

When and where did he die, please?

Did he invent a father for that marriage certificate?

Added:
Sorry for being slow, but I cannot see them in 1901 - was Mary Ann born in Andover and William in Basford?

Added:
OK, got them, as boarders.

Witnesses on marriage certificate?

There are births in Basford - are these the ones that have been discounted, including unmarried Mothers?

[jantoz]

Yes it is quite likely that the name on the marriage certificate is made up, I know that his wife Mary Ann used her grandfather's name as she was born out of wedlock. William died 22 Feb 1962 in Leicester & is buried in the same plot as his wife in Gilroes Cemetery. They lived at the same address of 37 Abbeygate from the 1911 census until their deaths. The witnesses on the marriage certificate are a Harry V Burney & E M Caswell. I have had a look for them but haven't come up with much.
In the two census records of 1901 & 1911 William's birth is listed as 1873 & 1874 respectively, and his death certificate also has his age as 89 so making him born 1873.
I have discounted most of those born in New Basford between 1873-74 who appear in the 1901 census. There are only two exceptions I have found so far - William H Parker who seems to have died before 1891, his father's occupation really fits with my William's occupation, and a William Hill born to an unmarried mother Elizabeth Hill in 1872 and baptised in 1873. If it is the last I have tried to find marriage records for an Elizabeth Hill and subsequent census records but so far have found none with a son named William with the right birth date.
Janet 

[chempat]

Just for ref. for anyone

Harry V Burney Death December quarter 1950 age 70 Nottingham

and showing on 1901 and 1911 in Nottingham with wife Florence, claimed born Sydenham Surrey, general dealer in Furniture.

V for Victor according to marriage.

Added:
Cannot see his birth - wondered if it was this one:
June quarter 1880 Harry Victor B Maurice   Lewisham  1d 1130

[Annie65115]

Well, freeBMD has a William Hill b 1874 Basford district

Births Jun 1874   
Hill    William        Basford    7b   120

so maybe you need to get this certificate.

There are no baptisms for a William Hill at St Leodagarius in Basford in the period 1873-1883; but of course he could have been baptised non-con, or under a different name, or in another of the villages around Basford.

[chempat]

Annie65115,

There is a William Hill showing on the censuses 1881 to 1911, born Annesley, parents Joseph and Mary, who could be the William Hill of that birth you have found.

[Annie65115]

There were 59 babies baptised William at Basford between 1872-1876. Two of these are listed as illegitimate. Not a single one of the 59 is a Hill.

[jantoz]

Where to start! One of the researchers I hired suggested purchasing all of the, I think it turned out to be about four, birth records for William Hill 1871-1874 for around that area which I did. Of those there is one born 1874 to Joseph Hill and Mary Ann Hill nee Hayes who I believe goes on to marry an Ada in about 1898. The second was born 1871 also to Joseph Hill and Mary Hill nee Greemfield. The registration district for both is Basford, but the place of birth is Annesley for the first and Ruddington for the second. The second seems to have married an Agnes Dore about 1895 and is a widow by 1911.
I did find one William Hill born 1870 in Shipley Gate in the Basford registration district whose father is John Hill and mother Sarah Hill nee Oakey. The father is listed as a station master and I have not found much on this family which could be a possibility.
Of the three remaining certificates I purchased one is a John William Hill born 1874 in Watnall to Thomas Hill and Mary Ann Hill nee Draper, the next is an unamed boy to James Hill and Sarah Hill nee Sanderson born 1873 in Thrumpton and the last is a boy, William born Dec 1872 in Tuxford to Elizabeth Hill with no father mentioned. The last is I think the William Hill living with grandparents William and Mary Hill from 1881 - 1901, and in the 1891 census he is listed as their son. This one appears to be married to a Florence in the 1911 census.
My William Hill is the one who is a boarder in 1901 living with wife Mary Ann and his occupation is listed as a Sewing Machine Agent - his place of birth is just listed as Nottinghamshire, his marriage certificate lists him as an Insurance Agent. In the 1911 census he is again listed as a Sewing Machine Agent and his place of birth is New Basford. On each of his children's birth certificates he is a Commission Agent, on Daughter Annie's marriage certificate he is listed as a Traveller and on son Walter's marriage certificate he is a Commercial Traveller. His death certificate lists his occupation as a Hawker. I had hoped he would appear in the 1891 census with a similar occupation but have so far had no luck!
What makes it even more difficult is that one of his grandaughters (my mother) was adopted when she was about 14. Her adoptive parents wanted her to have no contact with her birth family and they migrated to Australia when she was about 20, so almost all family relations were severed. She has since made contact with one of her sisters who later died and has met many of her nieces and nephews, but due to family breakdowns little is known of Williams past. I started researching the family tree for my mums 80th birthday and this is the one wall I have failed to break down. I would love to finally find Williams family for her. I have records for 2 of his children Annie & Walter but the third William also remains elusive as it is such a common name for that era.
Janet 

[chempat]

If he believes that he was definitely born in New Basford, with father John, and correct age, then that does limit the search area.

School records?

I was reading an article about New Basford, which lead to the workhouse, so looked at Hills there, as one does, 2 children were born in France, Francis and George age 6 and 4. Can see Francis in 1911 but not in-between (as yet). Just as an interesting fact, no connection implied.

We always have this problem of whether a child definitely knows where they were born, and why William did not specify Basford in the 1901 census

1921 census.

Sorry, these are just random thoughts, jotted down.

Did the professionals say - no, that's all we can do, or suggest other avenues?