John Futter born about 1747

[Duodecem]

John Futter married Mary Edwards in Heigham (St Bartholomew) 3 Nov 1776, a witness was Thomas Futter. Between 1777 and 1790 they baptised 5 children-Richard, Edward, Edmund, Elizabeth and Sarah.
John was buried in Hellesdon in 1812 aged (according to the parish record) 65 which would put his dob as 1747.
I had hoped the names of their children would be a clue to parentage (Mary's parents were also John & Mary) but so far I haven't found a definite birth record for John Futter.
There are John Futters born betweeen 1747 and 1755 in Horsham St Faith, Ketteringham, South Creake and Tharston. The Horsham and Ketteringham Johns seem to have carried on and had a family in the same parish so I think they can be ruled out. Ancestry trees place his birth in Tharston but there is no evidence to put it there that I have found.
I hope that maybe someone can track down a baptism for John -otherwise my tree will Futter to a halt at this point! (Sorry ) Does anyone have any ideas please?

[Yorkslass]

Hi again Jan,

It’s possible that the Tharston baptism is your John Futter.

Here’s my reasoning ….

Searched Nrocat for John Futter and found details of an inquest in Hellesdon 1812, leading to finding a newspaper report of John Futter’s death in 1812, which you may have seen.

If not, it’s the Norfolk Chronicle, 14 November 1812 which says poor John died of a fractured skull whilst working in a barn.
Really interestingly, it says he was a servant to a Mr Coleman.

The baptism in Tharston is one of a few by a John/James and Mary Futter.

Eventually found a marriage entry for a James Futter of Tharston to a Mary Coleman.
Marriage was at St Stephen, Norwich - May 20 1741.

 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ejw/

What do you think?

Yorkslass

[Duodecem]

How very interesting -I haven't seen the Nrocat before but I found the piece you referred to. What a very interesting catalogue. I can see I'm going to be doing a fair amount of searching there!
I finally found that a goaf is a rick of corn or straw in a barn. So the poor man was on top of the stack and fell to his death.
 The Tharston link is Coleman do you think? John was working for one of his maternal relatives perhaps? Certainly Tharston is not too far from the area where he married and lived. James and Mary marrying in Norwich also means the family were more inclined to travel than some-particularly as they were from Tharston in the first place. (it's so helpful when someone lives and dies in the same parish!)
It's a pity there's no clue in the names of the children-James would have been useful! . John and Mary were obviously more imaginative than most.
As for James and Mary they only seem to have baptised John and George.
Thank you once again Yorkslass you never fail to turn up something interesting!

[trish1120]

MARY Futter, Wife of James, was Buried 23 Feb 1788, The Virgin Mary, Tharton
Notes, Late Mary Coleman; Certificate Delivered
(FreeREG)

Trish

[Yorkslass]

That was my way of thinking Jan, yes.
Though whether the same family of Colemans moved to Hellesdon with your Futters, is something I haven't looked into.

I too was surprised that John and Mary (Edwards) didn't name any of their children after their parents, so I checked the Tharston AT's, and I think they did - 

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ek6/

I'm pretty sure this is Mary Futter baptised by John and Mary Dec 14 1778.
It's indexed as Fuller, but the "t's" don't have a loop at the top, whereas the "l's" do ....

Yorkslass

[Yorkslass]

And a James.

 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ek8/

These two baptisms fit in with the "gaps" in the Heigham baptisms.
Perhaps John and Mary moved between the two parishes.

Interestingly, I also found some children baptised by a George Coleman and his wife Mary Futter around the same time.

Yorkslass

[Duodecem]

Thank you for those links -but I looked again and John Futter was baptised in Tharston 29 May 1748 son of JOHN and Mary Futter
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-12986-2569-36?cc=1824688&wc=M62T-FMC:160239801,161017301,160375302,160239804
Sorry I don't know how to shrink the link! If you look it clearly gives the father's name as Jno.

So it looks as though I'm looking for an earlier John and earlier Mary -not James Futter and Mary Coleman.
I do think that's probably the right John though -and presumably the James and Mary born in Tharston are his as well.

[Duodecem]

I've been giving this a bit more thought and wondering whether John of Tharston is, indeed "my " John.
The connection seemed to be Coleman -the family name of his mother and his employer at his death.
But -if his parents weren't James Futter and Mary Coleman but John and another Mary Futter, the connection is not there.
I do have one idea -but it may be wrong I wonder what others think?
In South Creake in 1745 Thomas and Esther Futter baptised John. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11547-64845-82?cc=1416598&wc=92BF-82D:30217101,29358102,30297301

It was their 3rd attempt at a John -previous baptisms were 1742 and 44. They also baptised Williams 39 and 40, Elizabeth 48 and James in 50 and again in 53.
Thomas died in 1771 so could have been a witness at John's marriage the previous year.

The only one who seems to have stayed and raised a family in South Creake is James -the others left the parish.

It's about 30 miles from John's place of marriage but if he was a farm worker he probably moved for work.
It's not evidence though is it- just suppostion? The only facts are the age which is about right if he died at 65 and the name Thomas Futter. Sigh 

[Yorkslass]

Hello Jan,

The more I look at this family, the more confused I get!

I looked at the South Creake registers - and yes, your John Futter could well be from there, but the only thing I disagree with is that Thomas, the witness at John Futter and Mary Edwards marriage was the Thomas Futter from South Creake.

The marriage was in 1776 - Thomas Futter of South Creake died in 1771 

What a pity the original registers for Tharston aren't available, only the ADT's, which are a copy of the registers.  It's always possible there was an error somewhere along the way.

Also noticed that James Futter and Mary Coleman married by licence in 1741 - but without knowing at which diocese they applied for the licence, it's a mammoth task to search. (plus some of them appear to be missing)

I've been searching for info about the various in-laws too - you originally said that Mary Edwards parents were a John and Mary, but I can't find a "suitable" baptism for her.
Where do you have her baptised?

I've really got my teeth into this, and I'd love to help unravel it.

Yorkslass