Pauline (Paula) BUTLER, born about 1925

[Timbottawa]

Hello everyone,

For the first time my family research involves S. Africa.  I have just learnt that a great uncle, James Henry BUTLER, born Castleford, Yorks, 1900, emigrated to S. Africa, where he married and had a daughter, Pauline, also known as Paula.  She must have been born about 1925-28, probably in the Johannesburg area, where her mother apparently ran a sewing factory.

Pauline visited the UK just after WW2, but it is believed she then returned to S. Africa.  Her father, James Henry, was supposedly killed during WW2 while serving with the S. African forces, though the CWGC site does not appear to confirm this.

I've read up on some of the links provided elsewhere in RootsChat, but I have a question.  One of the sites says "The public may submit applications for copies of birth, marriage and death certificates."  What is not clear to me is whether this includes requests of the type I have, i.e. "probably born 1925-1928, probably in or near Johannesburg."  Can someone clarify for me whether such a request might bear fruit, or do you have to have an exact date?

Thanks
Tim

[rutti tutti]

Hi Tim,
I have spent the last few days trying to find Pauline.
What I have found is a death notice for James Henry Butler in 1942.
Interpreted this means:
Cape Town Archives
Master of the Supreme Court
All the references and the year of death 1942.

If you apply for this death notice it will give the next of kin and circumstances of his death.

DEPOT     KAB                                                                   SOURCE    MOOC                                                                  TYPE      LEER                                                                  VOLUME_NO 6/9/9147                                                              SYSTEM    01                                                                    REFERENCE 79778                                                                 PART      1                                                                     DESCRIPTION          BUTLER, JAMES HENRY. ESTATE PAPERS.                                   STARTING  19420000                                                              ENDING    19420000       

Also in the archives is the divorce notice of a Pauline Shirley Butler and John Sievwright in 1957.
My best advice is to apply for the death notice either by writing to the archives, quoting the reference number or I can apply for it for you through the local family history centre at minimal cost. Both ways can take a number of weeks. It is nearly impossible to get birth certs!
Ruth

[Timbottawa]

Hi Ruth,

It's incredibly kind of you to do all this work on my behalf.  I can assure you that it is very much appreciated.

One problem I have with the father was that he (like several other males in the family) tended to juggle his fore-names.  So at times he was Henry James, and at others James Henry.  As you will see from the military records thread, I belatedly realised that this explained why my initial search of the CWGC site failed to show him, because I was looking for a "James Henry".  When I went back to look for "Henry James", there is a record which seems to fit perfectly.

If I have the right fellow from the CWGC site, it means that the death notice you found from 1942 would not be the right one (as Henry James was killed in June 1943).  My sincere apologies if I've wasted your time.

On the other hand, I'd bet my "bottom dollar" that the Pauline divorce record is my cousin.  Is it possible to apply for this record, and if so, what would it provide me with?

This also brings me back to my enquiry on the military records thread ... would the cemetery records have a next of kin?  I have visions of finding fresh flowers on the grave and "staking it out" to see if a (by now elderly) lady visits!!

So ... thanks once again for your fantastic help, and apologies if the revolving fore-names have caused you a problem.  I hope you'll forgive me sufficiently to help me out on the divorce, cemetery and military records.

Cheers
Tim

[rutti tutti]

There is also a death notice for Henry James in 1943 as well with wife Elizabeth Kathrina in Natal.  I have asked Mole to have a look at your posting as she is a military ace and see what ideas she has. She often goes to the Natal archives so could have a look but once again we could get a death notice for this one. I saw that JH butler died in 1942 and he was 23 but whether he has the same chap on the archive list I dont know!
http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300gi?200401200733198F318941%26DB%3DRSAE
Click on RSA and then search what you need.
You could also try an email to the SA military archives ( think the address is in my posting at the top of this list) they aslo take a while to answer but eventually you may get a reply.
will carry on looking.
Ruth

[rutti tutti]

right next bit of info!
If it is the Henry james from 1943 that is in the Natal archives. The divorce of pauline was also in Natal. There are 11 Sievwrights in RSA ( far too many Butlers!) 5 of whom in Natal, 4 in Gauteng, 2 in the Cape.
Dave Sievwright is or was the head of the National Sea Rescue here in Durban.
We may be barking up the wrong tree but is worth a shot - if I remember I will phone him tomorrow. He is possibly the right sort of age to be Paulines son.
Ruth

[Mole]

Estate file: The Death Notice of Henry Jas BUTLER MSCE Ref 85/1944 (held in PMB Archives) would be the first avenue to follow, to establish if this is the correct individual.

Military : The South African Defence Force has records of all persons who served in the SA Armed Forces from 1912, including both World Wars.  Information can be obtained by writing to the Deputy Director, Documentation Centre (Personnel Archives) Private Bag X289 Pretoria 001.

Cemetery: probably not the best avenue to follow for details of next of kin.

Divorce files: often contain a copy of the marriage certificate (a much easier of getting this, by the way, than applying for one from the Dept of Home Affairs ).  Names of plaintiff and defendant, names of children (sometimes), who got custody, details of proceedings in the case, financial settlements etc are usually found in such files; residential and occupational/business addresses given can be useful. 

Regards
Mole
www.genealogyworld.net

[Timbottawa]

Dear Ruth and Mole,

When I first started reading up on how to proceed with family research in S. Africa (only a week or so ago) I was pretty despondent because it seemed awfully hard to get anything done.  But I hadn't expected to find such amazingly helpful people.  Thanks so much for the excellent advice you've given me.

My elderly British cousin, who alerted me to this S. African branch tells me that Pauline's mother, Henry James' wife, owned a textile factory.  She also told me that when Pauline travelled to the UK after WW 2, she "sailed from Johannesburg".  Well, even I am knowledgeable enough to know that you can't sail from Joburg!  I assumed that the family was based there, and my relative had just simplified the voyage!  But now, joining the dots, perhaps she was right about sailing, but wrong about the port.  Am I correct in thinking that the textile industry in S. Africa is more associated with Durban/E. London?  I have this feeling that that's where a lot of Indians settled, and I'm associating them with textiles ... probably guilty of racial stereotyping!

Anyway, the Natal connection, with the marginal concentration of Sievwrights, but also the promising death notice makes this seem possible.

So ... I will certainly follow up with all the correspondence you recommend, and Ruth ... if you do get a chance to chat to Dave Sievwright ... it would be a huge coincidence, but why not?!

One more question ... have you two been generating this information from NAAIRS?  If so, I'm missing something because I can't find the same information in my searches.  What I DID find was the following:

DEPOT  NAB; SOURCE   MSCE;
TYPE  LEER ; SYSTEM 01                                                      REFERENCE 1802/1960                                                             PART      1                                                                     DESCRIPTION          SIEVWRIGHT, JOHN ARTHUR RICHARD BOYD. BORN IN SCOTLAND. S SP SIEVWRIGHT, PAULINE SHIRLEY. BORN BUTLER. DIVORCED. DECEASED ESTATE.

So it seems that the husband died just 3 years after the divorce.  Maybe Dave Sievwright might know John A. R. B., even if not his son!

Anyway, thanks again.

All the best
Tim