Re Bates/Bate family of Staffordshire

[spitfire28]

Hi all. My earliest verifiable ancestor was John Bate/Bates baptised in the parish church of St Thomas Dudley , Staffs 20th August 1797 . I believe he changed name to Bates and married a Phoebe ( Phebe ) Bache at St Thomas Church Dudley
23rd May 1820 .
Tentative research may reveal that John's father was John Bate who married a Sophia Eastop in Kingswinford 3rd October 1796 .
Is anyone able to help with this research. ANY help most gratefully received. 

[jim1]

I take it he's this John Bate in Oldbury in 1851:
HO107; Piece: 2024; Folio: 542; Page: 6
If you want confirmation on Phoebe's maiden name you will need James Bate's birth cert.

I can't see them in 1841 but in 51 he says he's 50, ok I know ages can be out a few years but have you discounted this John:
John Bate
Ch.1 September 1799
SAINT THOMAS,DUDLEY
Parents:
Isaac & Elizabeth Bate.
There's also this one;
John Bate
23 January 1803
SAINT THOMAS,DUDLEY
Parents:
Joseph & Mary Bate

Also have you discounted this marriage:
John Bate 
Spouse's Name: Phoebe Foxall 
Event Date: 31 Jan 1820 
Event Place: St. John, Halesowen,
Details:
St. John the Baptist Halesowen
31 Jan 1820
John  BATE / Otp / Bachelor
Phoebe  FOXALL / Otp / Spinster
Wit. Richard  FOXALL  Rebekah  BATE

[spitfire28]

Hi there and thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my post. I have definitely found and identified John in the 1841 census as I recognise his children living with him. He was born 1797 and Baptised in St Thomas Dudley with parents John and Sophia . He doesnt appear to have and connection with Brierly Hill but John's father John is likely to have married Sophia Eastop 3rd October 1796 St Mary's Kingswinford.. It is this latest link which I am endeavoring to expand backwards with maybe a visit to Worcester Archives sometime in the Spring.
Once again ALL help gratefully received.

P B B   

[jim1]

I can see them now in Halesowen.
I still can't work out how you seem to be sure John married Phoebe Bache & his parents are John & Sophia.
You need the birth cert. of either James or Mary to ascertain mother's maiden name.
This is probably James Bate's birth;
Bate James Dec 1839  West Bromwich 18 506
There is another one registered in Dudley in 1838 but he is probably son of John & Caroline Bate.
West Bromwich was the Reg. District for Oldbury where they were living in 1841.

[spitfire28]

Ok.. well my concrete starting point is the entry in the 1841 census showing John aged 44 , living in Sedgley with his son Charles et al ( my grandfather ) and further more they were brick makers .  REF HO 107/998/6 . Charles's son James.. later founded the James Bates Brickworks in Ettingshall ( now Lanesfield ) which I visited as a boy. I thank you again for your interest . You appear to be better placed than myself to gain information as I live on the South Coast and it is many years since I have been back to my birth place. If you can add more .. it would be very welcome.

P B B

[jim1]

So I had the wrong John & Phoebe.
I'm afraid the ref. no. doesn't equate as in 1841 you need the piece, folio, page & book no's.

[jim1]

Ok I have him now:
Ho107
Piece:
998
Book:
6
Folio:
16
Page Number:
24

[jim1]

Do you have any of the family in 1851.

[spitfire28]

Good evening Jim .I do have details of the family in the 1851 and later census records. I will detail them tomorrow. Thanks