PAYNE/ COURTNEY

[villagenews]

My husband's great great grandfather was NOAH PAYNE born about 1830 in Henfield. He married Caroline Courtney Born about 1833 in Shoreham. The 1861 shows them as COURTNEY (not Payne) living in Shoreham. Also found 1891 & 1901 both as Courtney now living in Portsmouth .
Their son Edward Courtney Payne , husband's great grandfather married Maria Brookman. The 1911 census has Edward & Maria living in Portsmouth, with his grandfather Harry age 19 and Caroline Courtney age 77 widow. We know the family came from Portsmouth so sure this is correct. 

Unable to find any more record of Noah, birth or marriage records, parents, 1841 census? 
any help appreciated, thanks   

[nanny jan]

Hi,

There is a marriage in 1853 for  a Noah Courtney in Brighton, possible bride is Caroline Payne.

A baptism, 31st January 1830 at Henfield, Sussex; parents Eli and Lucy Courtney.

The Noah Courtney born in Henfield, appears with parents and siblings on 1841 census at Mitchells Buildings, Henfield and then in 1861 and 1881 as an able seaman. 1891 he is a Chapel Keeper, 1901 a "late Chapel Keeper"; on both he is shown with wife Caroline (b. Sussex) and his death is registered in 1902.

There are 4 online trees tracing Noah Courtney and Caroline Payne,some with details from marriage/death certificates.

Edward Courtney Payne was born in 1851; two years before Edward and Caroline married.


Nanny Jan

[villagenews]

 The latter part all tallies with what we have. It is just the early records that are confusing. The census records we have found say he was born in Henfield, yet the only birth records seems to be for Noah Courtney not Payne. I had seen the mention of a marriage record for Noah Courtney and Caroline Payne but had disregarded it! Would you know if they both signed their names rather than a cross? Edward and Maria were also married in Brighton so another similarity.

It would seem as if the surname somehow changed as my husband's grandfather was definitely Harry PAYNE, grandson of Edward Courtney Payne.  On Edward and Maria's wedding certificate it states father as Noah Payne!  So a mystery.......!

Thanks,

[nanny jan]

The certificate is shown connected to an online tree;  he made his mark but Caroline signed.

Edward Courtney Payne was born before the marriage so he would have been registered under Caroline's maiden name; he was registered as Edward Payne and uses that name on his marriage certificate.  His death is also registered as just Edward Payne.

One of the trees has numerous sources, photographs etc.and that is the only one showing him as Edward Courtney Payne; others show him as just Edward Payne.
 It might be worth a free trial of Ancestry to have a look at it;  I'm not sure if you can access trees on the version available in libraries.


Nanny Jan

[villagenews]

All making sense, no wonder hard to sort as Edward & Maria's marriage certificate says father Noah Payne! Maybe the Courtney was used as a middle name.

A photo source on a tree for Edward C Payne shows him with his grandson Edward Gaeorge Courtney Payne, however, I can only find 2 generations. His son Edward G C Payne born 1879 having only one daughter Dora.  Another mystery!

Thanks.

[nanny jan]

All making sense, no wonder hard to sort as Edward & Maria's marriage certificate says father Noah Payne! Maybe the Courtney was used as a middle name.

A photo source on a tree for Edward C Payne shows him with his grandson Edward Gaeorge Courtney Payne, however, I can only find 2 generations. His son Edward G C Payne born 1879 having only one daughter Dora.  Another mystery!

Thanks.

He might have used Payne as his father's surname to save awkward questions having been born 2 years before his parents married. The labelling of "grandson" is possibly a typo as the tree shows his parents to be Edward and Maria.

[villagenews]

That's the conclusion I had come to as well.
Many thanks