Re Royal Navy Division and approval of discharge

[Northerngirl]

Hello.

I hope I am posting this in the correct forum.  I am trying to understand a comment made about my relative who served briefly in the Royal Navy in 1917.  It seems that he was based at Portsmouth and was on a ship called the Victory which at the time in July 1917 was engaged in hostilities.  He is described as a shell lacquerer.  There is a comment in the document about an 'N8103/18 approves of discharge in order that he may be signed to t1242 for service at OS MMR'. Can anyone decipher why he is being discharged and where is he going to?  When he married in 1916 his occupation was given as a munitions worker.  Any information is gratefully received. JA

[HMac]

Hi JA,
HMS VICTORY was the RN barracks at Portsmouth. The discharge would be to the Mercantile Marine Reserve as an ordinary seaman serving on a T124 agreement.

Regards
Hugh

[Northerngirl]

Hello Hugh.  Thank you for the reply but what does it all mean please?

[HMac]

During 1916-1920 the Mercantile Marine Reserve (MMR) was used to engage officers and seamen on board vessels employed on government service. The crews of vessels commissioned as auxiliaries by the Admiralty were signed on under a T.124 agreement, whereby they agreed to serve in any commissioned vessel, but retained aspects of their civilian pay and benefits.

There is not much by the way of records for the MMR unfortunately.

Do you wish to share his name and date and place of birth?

Regards
Hugh

[Northerngirl]

Hi Hugh.

He was Robert Cleugh (mistakenly given as Clough) Armstrong.  His number was j73734.  He would have been 23 years old then.
JA.

[HMac]

Hello JA, I would suggest that he was transferred to the MMR rather than discharged. The reason is not clear and I doubt the notation used, N8103/18 will give any further clue. It looks like he was transferred in 1918. He was awarded the British War Medal.

The title of the thread (Royal Naval Division) had me confused for a minute. He served in the Royal Navy not the Royal Naval Division. The RND consisted of reservists who saw service mainly in the trenches rather than in the war at sea.

The Mercantile Marine was the forerunner of the Merchant Navy a civilian organisation hence the statement in my reply regarding being signed on a T124 agreement and keeping their civilian pay and conditions but they were subject to the Naval Discipline Act.  The MMR manned commissioned and un-commissioned auxiliary vessels such as armed merchant cruisers and stores ships and other vessels taken up by the Admiralty for war service.

Regards
Hugh

[ScouseBoy]

Was it analogous in some respect to the "Royal Fleet  Auxiliary"  which came later?

Did their ships fly the Blue Ensign?

[crimea1854]

You might be interested to know that his medal was sold at auction in Dec last year:

http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/catalogue-archive/lot.php?auction_id=323&lot_id=105014

Martin

[HMac]

Was it analogous in some respect to the "Royal Fleet  Auxiliary"  which came later?

The Royal Fleet Auxiliary was established in 1905 so came before the established MMR in 1916.

Did their ships fly the Blue Ensign?

The MMR was a reserve of seamen who crewed commissioned and non-comissioned auxiliaries. The commissioned auxiliaries flew the White Ensign and its crews subject to Naval discipline and the non-commissioned auxiliaries, I am reasonably sure, still flew the Red Ensign as they were still under the Board of Trade.

It is not an easy subject and there is more to it than that and not much in the way of records remain so it is a tad difficult to explain.

Regards
Hugh