Birth Certificate Lemberg Austria

[PhotoTracy]

Hi everyone, newbie here!
I've been trying to find a birth certificate for my GGgrandfather for a long time now with no luck.

His name is Heinrich Simon Issumer Hersh Karp.
He was born on January 12, 1857 in Lemberg, Hartberg Furstenfeld Styria Austria. And man, that's a mouth full! So I'm honestly confused as to exactly where to write? I've tried Familysearch.org to no avail. I've even tried getting his death certificate from the IKG as he died in Vienna, thinking I could work backwards off of that, but no luck there either?
Does anyone have a link to where I might inquire?

Beyond that, I'm happy to get to know everyone and learn from you along the way.
Kind regards,
Tracy

[AMBLY]

Hi Tracy,

A warm welcome to Rootschat!   

I can see you've been searching a while.  It's important to know the following:
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.ceeurope.austria.Prov.vienna/2378.1/mb.ashx

• He was Jewish so the records may be held by a synagogue or church
• Believed born in Lemberg, Austria.
• A chance he lived in Lviv, Ukraine.
• Parents possible:  Isak KARP & wife Feige, nee Berger

Also to know that Lemberg  is the same place also known as Lviv  (or Lvov and Lwow)  and that the borders and sovereignty of Lemberg/Lviv changed over years, wars, etc.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lwiw

So, I found this site:
http://search.geshergalicia.org/

Search for:   Isak Karp

A number of children for Isak and wife Feige Berger, including  a son called Isumer Hersh, birth registered in Lviv, 1857.

This is an index, the actual document not online - but there are addresses to contact, and no doubt more info to glean from the website, I haven't read it all in depth.  It does say, the project to transcribe the Lviv Jewish vital records is ongoing.

Cheers
AMBLY

[PhotoTracy]

How kind of you to reply Ambly! 
Yes, Isaak & Feige were his parents. I got most of the information I have from the Galicia site. One minute I see he's from Galicia, then Lemberg then Lviv.... I'm terribly confused by all of that! So sometimes I feel I'm running in circles to find a simple birth certificate. It never occured to me that his Jewish birth certificate would be held in a church? Then the question is, where does one start to find which church. The idea seems daunting I must admit. My goal is to get a birth certificate for his parents as well. I'm very grateful for your input. I guess I will start looking at churches in . . . ? Lviv?   
Thank you for your help. You are my first friend on Roots!   
Regards,
Tracy

[AMBLY]

Hi Tracy,

The bullet point  above, about  "records may be held by a synagogue or church" was my transcript from your message on the 2014 forum  that I linked to.  I personally would suppose a synagogue  over a church - but you'd have to research the political & religious  'atmosphere' of the place and times to know if that is a reasonable line of enquiry. All sorts of laws & oppressions may have been occurring at those times that determined how/where/what records were kept.

Being Jewish and from Lviv/Lemberg - which is the same place -  not only do you have the blurred lines of  nationality or allegiance, you have the dual consideration of religion. ....  How were the Jewish population of Lviv treated at that time? What places of worship did they have?  Then you have the language barrier (if you don't speak the local language) - right now it's the Cyrillic alphabet on the maps linked to on Galicia site; Lviv is presently part of the Ukraine. I understand the Jewish population of Lviv didn't fare well in WW2 either, so would imagine actual places of Jewish worship and their religious records,  might not have survived - just my guess.

So you could battle all those obstacles but my suggestion would be to contact the Lviv Archives.  There's a lot of information on that Galicia site to work through and read and digest, to help you make your way.  Even contact the Galicia site owners themselves to ask if they can point you in the right direction or advise what more you might hope to find aside from what they indexed  online.  For example, asking the question of what a Synagogue or Jewish Committee, or local civil office in 1857 would have collected in relation to a birth record of a Jewish child.

Also, from the 'House Number' indexed for each record - for Isumer Hersh KARP it was  103 2/4,  you can identify the District (precinct) of Lviv they were living at when the births occurred.  That will help you too narrow down areas.

As far as I can work out, for:
Lviv Jewish Birth Records (1805-1872) - which are held at :
The Central State Historical Archives of Ukraine in Lviv

Their contact information here:
http://www.archives.gov.ua/Eng/Archives/ca04.php
http://tsdial.archives.gov.ua/ (use the google translate toolbar if need be to get the gist of things)

Cheers
AMBLY

[JohninSussex]

This looks like the place being referred to in the initial post, as the district name (Hartberg) matches and it's actually in Austria!.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankt_Magdalena_am_Lemberg

So somewhere there has been some confusion between all those Lembergs.

[PhotoTracy]

I have a lot of research to do, don't I? 
I think I'll start with the links you gave me. And I really thank you for them! And I'll see what transpires there?  Then a post by JohninSessex brings up a good point and another place I've poked around, is that Styria (Hartberg) is actually in Austria.  TWO Lembergs!!!!
I had always been told that Heinrich was born in Austria, but searching brought me to Lviv Ukraine. So you can see how I've been on a wild goose chase. I'm honestly grateful and humbled by how nice, and willing to help everyone has been!
I'll get on this and if I come across anything, I'll let you know!
Kind regards,
Tracy

[kimmie 75]

hi Tracy
I have a photo of heinrich for you, I also have a link to a website that may help you.http://www.genteam.at/

[PhotoTracy]

Hi Kimmie 75!
How nice to hear from you!
Depending where you got it from, the photo may be one of mine from Geni.com or Ancestry? But I would love to see it. If you like, you can e-mail it to me at PhotoTracy@aol.com.
The link you sent is great, and while I'd been on it before, I honestly forgot about it until you sent the link. So thank you for reminding me about it. I'm not sure what to do with all the numbers they give you in each search? I guess use them to get the actual document through the IKG in Vienna?
Thank you very much for contacting me. I appreciate the help!
Kind regards,
Tracy

[MaxD]

The hierarchy and geography of places in present day Austria may be irrelevant if Lviv is where you end up but just in case -    Hartberg is a city in the district  of Hartberg-Fuerstenfeld, in the province of Steiermark. Styria is Steiermark in German. The link by johninsussex is to Sankt Magdalena am Lemberg, a hamlet named for its church, a mile or so from the slightly larger hamlet of Lemberg a former municipality in what is now Hartberg-Fuerstenfeld district about 11km south of Hartberg.

Do you know how the information in your first post about his place of birth came about?  The district of Hartberg-Fuerstenfeld didn't come into existence until 2013.

If the connection however is to Lemberg, formerly Lviv or Lvov (all same place) in former Galicia (now Ukraine) then this irrelevant so please ignore it, it will only confuse!

maxD