Author Topic: British citizenship  (Read 1569 times)

Offline lisat

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British citizenship
« on: Saturday 03 October 15 12:38 BST (UK) »
Hi, does anybody know whether a Russian immigrant to this country in around 1901, could become a British citizen by marrying a British wife. Also wondering what would have happened to my Russian born ancestor in WW1, he married a British wife in London in 1907. Would he have been interred? Thanks .
Thackwell, Weinberg, Pointon, Pringle, Staniforth, Dennis, Fitzgerald, Lilley,Bush, Ramus, Weber, Coatup-Liddiard, Hart, Collins

Offline aghadowey

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Re: British citizenship
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 03 October 15 12:59 BST (UK) »
As far as I know, prior to WWI a woman automatically took the citizenship of her husband upon marriage but I've never heard of the reverse happening.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Bookbox

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Re: British citizenship
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 03 October 15 12:59 BST (UK) »
Hi, does anybody know whether a Russian immigrant to this country in around 1901, could become a British citizen by marrying a British wife.

No. At this date (under the Naturalization Act 1870) the opposite happened -- the wife lost her British citizenship.

Also wondering what would have happened to my Russian born ancestor in WW1, he married a British wife in London in 1907. Would he have been interred?

Unlikely. I believe Britain and Russia were on the same side in WW1.

Offline Rena

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Re: British citizenship
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 03 October 15 13:07 BST (UK) »
My gt. grandfather couldn't afford to obtain British citizenship and his documents show both he and his English born wife Elizabeth Cooper were classed as "Aliens".  Even when Elizabeth was widowed in 1942 she was still officially an "Alien" until her death later in 1942.

This webpage: might help you:-

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/naturalisation-british-citizenship/

1870-1912 – search by name in record series HO 334 on Ancestry.co.uk and download (£) naturalisation certificates and declarations of British nationality for these years
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke


Offline lisat

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Re: British citizenship
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 03 October 15 13:15 BST (UK) »
Thanks Rena, that's really interesting.may I ask, in what way was she classed an Alien up to her death. Would it show up on records? Would it prevent being on the electoral register? I didn't realise that it was costly to apply for citizenship.
I have checked the Naturalisation certificates on Ancestry, and can't find him.
Thackwell, Weinberg, Pointon, Pringle, Staniforth, Dennis, Fitzgerald, Lilley,Bush, Ramus, Weber, Coatup-Liddiard, Hart, Collins

Offline Rena

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Re: British citizenship
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 04 October 15 11:52 BST (UK) »
Sorry to be late in answering. I tried yesterday but my reply didn't appear on the page.

The Census will always state where people were born but from the middle of WWI until after WWII Aliens had to be registered and also everyone had to carry Identity Cards.

I found Alien records of my gt grandfather and his wife Elizabeth in the East Riding of Yorkshire archives in the East Yorkshire Police record section. 
The last document I have of Elizabeth is a letter dated 1941 where she is stated to be German.  It is not the case now, but in those days when a couple married the wife was the legal chattel of the husband and this meant she also took on his legal status.  Hopefully somebody will come along to correct me if I'm wrong   The legalities started to change when an English mother lost custody of her English born baby to its French born husband who had never seen the baby. The baby was sent to France where he lived and I remember it causing quite a stir at the time. 
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline aghadowey

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Re: British citizenship
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 04 October 15 11:59 BST (UK) »
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Rena

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Re: British citizenship
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 04 October 15 12:06 BST (UK) »
Third time of trying:-

Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Bookbox

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Re: British citizenship
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 04 October 15 12:13 BST (UK) »
Would it prevent being on the electoral register?
Yes. One of the most common reasons given in applications for British Naturalization at this period was the desire to vote in parliamentary elections.

I didn't realise that it was costly to apply for citizenship.
In some of the applications I have seen for the 1890s the fee was 5 guineas (= £5 5s.), equivalent of around £300 in today's values. That's apart from the fee you might have to pay the 'agent' to handle the application. Some agents in the East End set up lucrative businesses acting as middlemen.

I have checked the Naturalisation certificates on Ancestry, and can't find him.
Ancestry's database only goes up to 1912. Search the National Archives catalogue, using the reference 
HO 334.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/advanced-search

That said, most people never applied. The main reason for doing so (apart from wanting to vote) was to enable business people and traders to gain credibility amongst their peers, and to help those who needed to travel overseas for business purposes.