Author Topic: Using DNA to find Scottish GR-GR-Grandfather in Renfrewshire  (Read 13580 times)

Offline ladyk

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Re: Using DNA to find Scottish GR-GR-Grandfather in Renfrewshire
« Reply #72 on: Wednesday 28 October 15 22:18 GMT (UK) »
Anne - WAHOO!! I had a good feeling, once it came to light that he married on his birthday, that this would be Caroline's William, but YOU have been so wonderfully kind to take the time and effort to PROVE it! Interesting to learn that John Reid (Caroline's father) died so early on. For some reason I had 1871, but I see that I didn't mark where that date came from, at least not on my family tree, it could be in notes somewhere. At any rate, now I know, again with many thanks to you, when he died and where. (I had Armadale, which I think is close by Bathgate.) Caroline was only a teenager at the time, and as Hannah Geddes was her stepmother, perhaps that meant she had few people to turn to in times of need. Apparently her aunt Elizabeth Gemmell, was who she turned to. Now her sad story is as complete as the passing of time will allow. Her whereabouts from the birth of her son to her death remains a mystery, but as there were no census in that period, I can just assume that she remained in the area where she had lived and died. Always so many more questions than we can answer, but I thank you again for all your dedication and help. Anne, if you'd like a free place to stay on Cape Cod (east coast USA) my home is always open for you!   ;) I will let my new-found cousin (William's great-granddaughter) know of the latest developments. Now I am ready to begin my dna data analysis to see if I can find out the father of John! Wish me luck!  ;D
Scotland: Reid

Offline ladyk

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Re: Using DNA to find Scottish GR-GR-Grandfather in Renfrewshire
« Reply #73 on: Wednesday 04 May 16 04:47 BST (UK) »
I thought I would update anyone who's interested on my search for my gr-gr-grandfather's identity using dna analysis. I have made some progress!

I had my Dad's Y-dna done to 37 markers. Unfortunately, it wasn't as conclusive as I'd hoped. Apparently, at 37 markers you CAN get people who match to a significant level, but are NOT, in fact, related. So, I got a list of people who match my Dad's Y-dna and there was quite a range of surnames, though most seem to be of Irish/Scottish origin. However, I do now have a decent clue as to what my mystery man's surname may have been.

There were a total of 59 dna matches to my Dad at 37 markers. Out of that 59 there were 13 whose names were McLaughlin or a derivative thereof. The next most frequently occurring names were Donnelly and Dougherty, each with 4 matches. No other name had more than 2 occurrences among the matches on the list.

So, it is logical to presume that McLaughlin MAY be the surname of my gr-gr-grandfather. I also noted that most of the McLaughlins on this list indicated that their furthest back known ancestor was from Ireland, usually Tyrone or Donegal. So I may be more Irish than I thought I was!

I have contacted all of the McLaughlins on the matches list and some have responded. However, none could offer me a clue that would help me discover my mystery man's identity. None had ancestors in the time/place configuration that I am looking for.

So, I coughed up another $99 to have a further SNP panel done. This was the test recommended to me by the owner of the Dougherty family dna project (there are various surname projects associated with FTDNA which analyze dna data of folks with that surname). I am not yet well enough educated on the details of dna analysis to be specific about this test, but the gentleman told me that it will at least tell me if my Dad has the dna segment found in most Doughertys or McLaughlins. It will also show me which of the names on his match list are closest genetically and give me a better indication of how far back a common ancestor might be.

Now that I'm waiting for those results to come in, I think I will contact the Dougherty gentleman again and ask what specifically I should be on the lookout for when the results come in. If I do not end up with a more definitive possibility for a surname, I may have to think about extending the markers tested to the next level.... yes, another $99.

In the meantime, I have searched the census records for McLaughlin men who lived in the area where my gr-gr-grandmother Caroline was in 1871 who were of an age to have potentially produced a child. From this data, I have compiled a list of "suspects" - men who could be the culprit, based on a number of factors that would have potentially put them in contact with Caroline.

I have deduced that Caroline MAY have been "plying her trade" when she became pregnant with her sons. This is based on the fact that she had two children out of wedlock within 2 years, and one interesting fact gleaned from her death record. It lists Caroline's occupation as "pauper, formerly washerwoman". In all previous records of Caroline, she was listed as either mill worker or bleacher (thread bleacher). I have also been perusing the city directories of these years, and found that they had "female houses of refuge", which were apparently efforts to get "fallen women" off the streets and into honest work. To this end, most of them ran laundries out of these homes for women. I wonder if that is what she was doing prior to her death, thereby being listed as washerwoman. Just speculation, but interesting.

At any rate, I will update again when I get the newest dna results from FTDNA. Maybe I can find this Mr. McLaughlin, or whoever he was!

p.s. - Grandmother Caroline, sorry if I'm wrong about my theory. No offense intended.
Scotland: Reid

Offline hurworth

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Re: Using DNA to find Scottish GR-GR-Grandfather in Renfrewshire
« Reply #74 on: Friday 06 May 16 21:46 BST (UK) »
I'm very impressed that you've had some success with this, as I thought DNA would be a long shot in this instance.  Thank you for the update.

Offline alpinecottage

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Re: Using DNA to find Scottish GR-GR-Grandfather in Renfrewshire
« Reply #75 on: Friday 06 May 16 22:28 BST (UK) »

I have deduced that Caroline MAY have been "plying her trade" when she became pregnant with her sons. This is based on the fact that she had two children out of wedlock within 2 years, and one interesting fact gleaned from her death record. It lists Caroline's occupation as "pauper, formerly washerwoman". In all previous records of Caroline, she was listed as either mill worker or bleacher (thread bleacher).

p.s. - Grandmother Caroline, sorry if I'm wrong about my theory. No offense intended.

If Caroline was in this line of business, she may have been arrested for prostitution or other petty crimes, Have you looked for her in the local newspapers?
Perrins - Manchester and Staffs
Honan - Manchester and Ireland
Hogg - Manchester 19 cent
Anderson - Newcastle mid 19 cent
Boullen - London then Carlisle then Manchester
Comer - Manchester and Galway


Offline ladyk

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Re: Using DNA to find Scottish GR-GR-Grandfather in Renfrewshire
« Reply #76 on: Friday 06 May 16 23:27 BST (UK) »
No, I have not looked in the newspapers. She was dirt poor, do you think they bothered to list the names of these poor folks who got arrested for things that were so common? Maybe so, I don't know. I have checked as far as I am able with prison records, since I cannot find her at all in the 1871 census. That census was taken the same month she would have become pregnant with her second son, so it would be so helpful to know her whereabouts at that time, but alas, many efforts have been made and she has not been found. I have wondered if she could have been incarcerated at the time of the 1871 census, but she had a one-year-old son then, so I don't know what would have happened to him. Thanks for the suggestion, I will see what I can find regarding newspapers in Paisley/Neilston!

K
Scotland: Reid

Offline anne_p

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Re: Using DNA to find Scottish GR-GR-Grandfather in Renfrewshire
« Reply #77 on: Saturday 07 May 16 00:49 BST (UK) »
Hi LadyK,
I remember this.
I am still of the opinion that wherever Caroline and her son were at 1871, the address was possibly not enumerated.
If my memory serves me right, the PR application from Paisley library showed that she entered the poorhouse after census night 1871.


Wishing you luck with your DNA tests.
Did you ever make contact with the family of Caroline's other son William?

Offline ladyk

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Re: Using DNA to find Scottish GR-GR-Grandfather in Renfrewshire
« Reply #78 on: Saturday 07 May 16 01:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Anne, you're probably right. Yes, she was first admitted in October of 1871, six months after the census. The second time she was admitted, in May of 1872, they listed Rankin Street, Johnstone as her place of residence. There happens to be a concentration of McLaughlins living in Rankin street in the 1871 census! Speculation, but it might fit.

Oh yes, Lynn and I are in touch. She is my third cousin, gr-granddaughter of William Reid, Caroline's older son. She was happy to know the truth about William, since she had been looking for the couple he listed on his marriage record as his parents and coming up with nothing! Her family moved from Scotland to England before she was born, and she lives in Corby, Northamptonshire. We email back and forth whenever we have a question or a discovery, and I'm keeping her in the loop regarding the dna, though it is true that William may well have a different father than John.

I think it is telling that William named his son John, who was Lynn's grandfather, and John named my grandfather William! If they were still in touch, we may never know, but at least they were in one another's thoughts after they were separated by an ocean.  :)

K
Scotland: Reid