Glemham Little / Great - marriage for Caroline Sadd

[Joy Dean]

I am searching for a marriage for Caroline Sadd  - born 1817 to Jonathan and Sarah Sadd - to Joseph Smith about 1837; according to family trees in ancestry she is the third wife of Joseph Standfast Smith, carver / mason / sculptor who had previously been married to a Sarah Smith in 1832 and then a Caroline Barry in 1833, both in Bristol.

Can anyone help, please?

[ColC]

Unfortunately I cannot find a marriage for Joseph & Caroline Sadd, nor can I find a clear death for his second wife also Caroline. I did manage to find the census returns which I am sure you have but it might help others to find more information?

1841 Bird Street, St Mary Lambeth, Surrey
Josh   Smith   28   1813   sculptor   Not born in county
Caroline   Smith   25   1816      ditto
Mary   Smith   0    1841      Surrey,

1851 Lower Street, Grundisburgh, Woodbridge, Suffolk (Joe not present)
Caroline   Smith   Head   Married   33   1818   Stone Masons Wife   Suffolk, England
Joseph   Smith   Son   -   11   1840   -   Southwark, Surrey,
Elizabeth   Smith   Daughter   -   9   1842   -   Lambeth, Surrey,
Annette   Smith   Daughter   -   1   1850   -   Grundisburgh, Suffolk,

Colin

[Joy Dean]

Thank you for posting that.
I am beginning to wonder if either Joseph and my Caroline did not marry or, maybe, the surname Sadd was mistranscribed as Barry in his second marriage record.
I feel certain that the son Joseph was my Caroline's son because his birth was registered as Joseph Abraham Sadd Smith.

In other census:
1861 Caroline was a Masons's wife, age 39, b Little Glemham, with Annette, age 11, b Grainsby, Suffolk, Reuben, age 4, b Deptford, Kent, Hy, age 2, b Rotherhithe, Surrey, at 4 Seymour Street, St Paul's Deptford.
1871 she was age 47, with Reuben Henry, age 14, at 3 George Street, St Mary Redcliffe, Bristol.
1881 she was 63, with Joseph, Stone carver, age 72, b 1809 Brompton, Kent, at 8 Loampit Vale, Lewisham, London.

Caroline was the informant on the death certificate of her brother-in-law (Mary's husband) John Dyball 27 May 1885 .

In the 1891 census Caroline was a Lodger, widowed, age 73, living on own means, at 2 Reginald Road, Deptford.

I do have a note somewhere of where Joseph was during the census but cannot find it immediately. In 1863 according to https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/7305/page/293/data.pdf he was a prisoner for debt in jail.

[Joy Dean]

I wonder if I should ask about the marriage in the Gloucestershire board, too?

[ColC]

I checked various sites (except Ancestry) and I could not find a marriage anywhere in England.
I also checked to see if Caroline Sadd had married anyone else first, without success.

Registration began in July 1837, it is possible that they had a civil marriage which may not have been recorded, or maybe the first Caroline was still alive and they never married?

Colin

[Joy Dean]

Thank you for looking for them.
According to ancestry, Joseph married Caroline Barry 16 February 1833 in Holy Trinity, Bristol. Find my past has a marriage for him to Sarah Smith 2 January 1832 St Augustine-The-Less, Bristol, but to Caroline Barry 16 February 1833 at St Philip & Jacob, Bristol.
Whatever happened to Caroline Barry, the first marriage was short!
As you said, maybe Caroline Sadd and Joseph didn't marry; maybe the whole matter will remain a mystery.