Author Topic: Martin Jude (which pub was he the Innkeeper of) & looking for pics & info.?  (Read 8843 times)

Offline AndyR2

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Martin Jude (which pub was he the Innkeeper of) & looking for pics & info.?
« Reply #36 on: Thursday 03 November 22 14:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi
I've recently come across Martin Jude when searching for Thomas Wakenshaw, and saw that his pub is mentioned as a union meeting place on page 9 of http://www.ndfhs.org/pdfs/Vol-17-No-3.pdf
Andy

Offline AndyR2

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Martin Jude (which pub was he the Innkeeper of) & looking for pics & info.?
« Reply #37 on: Friday 04 November 22 10:45 GMT (UK) »
I'm interested in Drosybont's comment that "It was a difficult time for trade unionists so another possibility is that he deliberately avoided being included in the census" as I can't find several of Thomas's Wakenshaw borthers or his father in the 1841 census and it seems the whole family was denied work in Northumberland after the 1831-32 strikes. How was the census avoided? Using a false name, or hiding at the census (as it seems to have beenn conducted door to door)? Might union members have found work in neighbouring areas using false names?

Two other questions spring to mind now I've pressed 'post'! It seems that many of these early union leaders were methodist teetotalers (why not 'tea'totaler?) and meeting in a pub seems an odd choice ...
While I suspect that Thomas Wakenshaw was a Chartist I haven't noticed him being stated as such, but I guess he must have been given that Martin Jude was - does anyone know of a specific reference for Thomas (or his brother Alexander, or his father, another Thomas - or to union activities for either)?
Thanks

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,239
  • PASSED & PAST
    • View Profile
Re: Martin Jude (which pub was he the Innkeeper of) & looking for pics & info.?
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 05 November 22 05:05 GMT (UK) »
Hi AndyR2, welcome to RootsChat  ;)

Thanks for the link at Reply #36 as I'd not seen it before or if I had I don't recall it as it will be in among my 'lost' info. on my computer failure a few years back.

Hopefully Drosybont will see your message & reply.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline AndyR2

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Martin Jude (which pub was he the Innkeeper of) & looking for pics & info.?
« Reply #39 on: Sunday 13 November 22 08:04 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the welcome Annie, and pleased the article was of interest - Andy


Online AlanBoyd

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,584
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Martin Jude (which pub was he the Innkeeper of) & looking for pics & info.?
« Reply #40 on: Sunday 13 November 22 08:23 GMT (UK) »
The Monthly Chronicle of North Country Lore and Legend  1890-08: Vol 4 p379
sourced at the Internet Archive

Quote
On the 17th of June, Mr. Thomas Wakenshaw a veteran Northumbrian miner, died at his house at Stakeford, near Bedlington, at the advanced age of 88 years. He had been identified with many of the labour struggles which occurred during the second quarter of the present century. Until his death he was the only man in the district still living who had passed through the perils and the pains of the battle for unionism sixty years ago. He was appointed the representative of Netherton and Glebe Collieries in 1831 and 1832 to attend the delegate meetings of miners held in Newcastle.

During the strike of 1844, Wakenshaw earnestly supported the efforts of Martin Jude, Mark Dent, Christopher Haswell, and the other leading miners of that day.
Boyd, Dove, Blakey, Burdon

Offline Drosybont

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Martin Jude (which pub was he the Innkeeper of) & looking for pics & info.?
« Reply #41 on: Sunday 13 November 22 19:39 GMT (UK) »
Apologies for being slow to respond. 

Looking at Chartist newspapers, the Northern Liberator based in Newcastle and the Northern Star which was the main one for the whole movement, I can only see reports mentioning Thomas Wakenshaw as a miner's leader.  He may well have also supported Chartism, though.  In the late 1830s and early 1840s around Newcastle these movements were closely connected, with Chartist 'lecturers' frequently visiting mining areas and colliers supporting Chartist meetings. 

Although beer houses and inns were often used as Chartist meeting places, and  provided economic opportunities for people whose political involvement made other work difficult, there was an awareness that the association with alcohol could be problematic.  In the 1840s teetotalism was promoted by some Chartists, as part of the ‘New Move’ towards education and self-improvement, and in some localities Chartists established alternative meeting places, if they could afford them. 

Drosybont

Hotham, Guilliatt, Brown, Winter, Buck, Webster, Mortimore
Richards, Meredith, Gower, Davies, Todd, Westmacott, Hill
Mid C19 Cardiff and Haverfordwest, the Marychurch family.

Offline AndyR2

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Martin Jude (which pub was he the Innkeeper of) & looking for pics & info.?
« Reply #42 on: Monday 14 November 22 08:17 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Alan - searching for Thomas Wakenshaw throws up several interesting articles with similar content to this.
Thanks for having a look for me Drosybont - I haven't seen anything defintive, though as you say it is not unlikely - I suspect primitive methodism was the more important for him, and I still remember my grandparents' strong methodist and teetotal views!