Lookup Request - Puttnam birth (around 1876)

[deputtenham]

Requesting lookup please.  Birth details For my great-grandfather FREDERICK PUTTNAM, born in Lambeth or Kennington abt. 1876.  Need to know who his mother was, as we still have no idea after 5 years of searching Ancestry.com and other major sites.  It is not the "George Frederick Puttnam" born 1876 in sub district of St Peter Walworth, Registration District: St. Saviours Surrey.  My G.G.'s father's name was also Frederick Puttnam (born 1850) in Lambeth.   In the 1901 census my G.G. stated his name as "Fred George Puttnam" & they were living at 6 Johanna St, Lambeth North.  Thank you

[keyboard86]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat, would I be correct that his marriage registration was June qtr 1899 St Saviour 1d  77 as Frederick PUTTMAN to ( on same page Elizabeth Sarah Marshall) ,  I assume you have this marriage certificate which states Father Frederick, could you supply the occupation of his father and any witnesses please.

Also how do you know his father was born 1850ish?

Also do you have the family in 1911 census?
Keyboard86

[rosie17]

Hi and welcome from me also is this the marriage keyboard mentioned 2/4/1899 Christ Church Southwark Frederick Puttman age 21 Bachelor ( labourer ) father Frederick Puttman ( horse dealer )
Elizabeth Sarah Marshall age 21 spinster father Alfred Marshall ( compositor )
Both of the same address 8,Jane Street witnesses John Middleton & Charlotte Wallis
Rosie

[keyboard86]

Hi again, just hoping a fresh pair of eyes can assist you with Frederick prior to marriage?

The children shown on 1901 were baptised/transcribed :-

Elizabeth Sarah Puttnam 1st October 1899 St Thomas, Lambeth
Abode 73, Oakley Street

Frederick William George PUTTNIM
23rd December 1900 St Thomas, Lambeth
Abode 6, Johanna Street
Both Father Frederick occ Labourer Mother Elizabeth Sarah


Frederick W G dies March qtr 1911 Lambeth 1d 19 aged 10

I believe there were also twins Amy and Nellie born/died December qtr 1910?
Keyboard86

EDIT Just what is it about the Puttnam/Puttman surname, I can find an Army record of a Frederick Puttnam b c 1875 Lambeth Service Number 7517 in the 4th Battalion East Surrey Militia, he is by the looks of it the Frederick Puttman b c 1875 Lambeth Service Number 3791 4th (QO) Hussars his record with Hussars gives father Henry and 43, Granby Place, maybe not your Frederick but again unable to locate?!!

[deputtenham]

Hello and thank you to both keyboard86 and rosie17 for responding.
Yes I have copy of 1899 marriage certificate (ordered 2008) of my great grandparents.  BTW, Rosie whereabouts do you search to get all of that information about the marriage, without ordering a marriage certificate.  I would love to know the source and website ... Thank you.

I also have the family in 1911 census @ Grindal St, Lambeth - large family and growing by that time. Elizabeth's last child was born in 1923. There were 10 children that lived to adulthood!
I believe Frederick senior to be born around 1950 from his birth certificate 1850 July birth certificate  parents Jonathan Puttnam (Baker), mother Mary Peen -born at 27 north street lambeth.  Have known for some time that the family hailed from Buckinghamshire and had some kind of connection to Sir Roger de Puttenham (1325). It was researched in the 1950s by an older Puttnam relative via old school microfische family history centres etc.  We knew that Fred's grandfather was Jonathan from Bucks. There are other mentions on public family trees on Ancestry and G.R. of Jonathan and Mary, and on G.Reunited going right back to 11th Century when the name was Puttenham and De Puttenham.  But I cannot provide index numbers.

The secondary sources of his 1850 birth are:

1861 census for jonathan
16 Charles street lambeth
jon’s occupation: yeast merchant
wife: mary  born sutton valance same age as Jon (47)
other childen: John (18),  Isabella (16)  our Frederick (10)

1871 census for Jonathan Puttnam
6 Willtshire Place, lambeth
Jon’s wife listed as Sarah born in Camberwell, Surrey  (2nd wife??)  Mary Peen Puttnam possibly died in 1862. I can't find the death certificate but sure I ordered it...?
Frederick age 21 is Tramway Conductor  … this age ties in with 1850 birth.

1881 Census - a Frederick Puttnam age 34 (born Lambeth) Pawnbrokers assistant staying in Lincolnshire
with wife (also named) Sarah -- just the two of them
no record of Fred junior (my G.Gf) … maybe he was staying with relatives in London at the time.
Not certain that this is our Fred senior either!

cheers, Liz

[keyboard86]

Hi again, the marriage shown by Rosie is on Ancestry, London England Marriages like this one:-

Jonathan Puttnam Widower occ Gentleman Father William occ Horse Dealer
Sarah Cowell Father John Cowell occ Corn Merchant
17th October 1865 St Matthew, Brixton
Keyboard86

[keyboard86]

Hi the 1851 for 27, North Street Lambeth with Jonathan & Mary showed these children :-

William 15
Henry 12
Thomas 10
John 7
Elizabeth 6
Susan 3
George 5
Frederick 8 months
The problem still is who did this Frederick ( if him) marry to produce a Frederick b c 1875 Kennington?
Keyboard86

[deputtenham]

Thanks Keyboard86 for the army details 4th Battalion East Surrey Militia.  My mum (age 78) doesn't recall her grandfather doing any military service or training, but as most of us know, many men of that generation never talked about that kind of thing, esp. with grandkids & extended family.  If his father's name is given as 'Henry' in the Hussars record, then it could be a first cousin of our Fred, especially if the family was from Lambeth (18 Weshall Rd, lambeth) Source: 1881 Census, RG11, P611, Folio 67, Page 18.

[keyboard86]

Hi again,  I am still unsure just how linking a Frederick with a Jonathan is definitely the same father who had a son Frederick 1875 Kennington who we know married an Elizabeth Sarah Marshall,  ie in 1891 their is a widowed Frederick b 1848 Ampthill Bedfordshire who is a Horse Keeper?!
Keyboard86