Author Topic: Robert Tomlinson 1814 of Butterley - update  (Read 2527 times)

Offline Rob T

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Robert Tomlinson 1814 of Butterley - update
« on: Sunday 29 November 15 15:45 GMT (UK) »
Here is an update of my original post about Robert in 2006.

My query concerns my 2nd great grandfather Robert Tomlinson, who was born at Butterley Park in 1814 approx. I've located Robert in various censuses: 1841 in Sheffield; 1851 and 1861 in Jump, Yorkshire; and 1871 and 1881 in Elsecar, Yorkshire.

Robert had 6 children: Thomas (1838 Blacker Hill); George (1840 Rotherham); Elizabeth Mary Ann
(1842 Elsecar); William (1844 Jump); also two children who both died aged 2 years - James (1848) and Emma (1852).

Altogether, he had 6 children, 33 grandchildren, and at least 87 great grandchildren. One of his grandsons was Sir Thomas 'Tommy' Tomlinson who became chairman of the West Riding County Council, and one of his great grand-daughters, under the stage name of Blanche Tomlin (without the 'son') was an internationally acclaimed singer and entertainer in the period 1910-1940.

Robert had 3 wives and I've found what I believe are his 3 weddings, with almost exactly a year's mourning between: 24th Sep 1837 at Sheffield to Sarah Cusworth (nee Wigfield); 21st Oct 1867 at Rotherham to Elizabeth Rodgers; and 24th Aug 1873 at Rotherham to Elizabeth Green (nee Sanderson).

Unfortunately, he gave 3 different father's names at each one - William Tomlinson (blacksmith); Isaac Tomlinson (fishmonger); and George Tomlinson (labourer).

I found a potential christening for Robert at Pentrich on 10th Jun 1820, mother Mary Tomlinson, with no father's name given. Robert would have been about 6 years old.

In the 1861 census, Robert had staying with him Isaac Johnson age 30 (b Butterley Park, Derbyshire)who was described simply as a ‘relative’. Also, Robert had two visitors on the 1881 census, both named Emma Dean, and both born Codnor Park, Derbyshire, near to Robert's birthplace of Butterley, and whom I felt could be related to Robert in some way. Their ages were 55 and 20, suggesting they could be mother and daughter.

I found on IGI that Isaac Johnson was born 28th Sep 1829, and was christened 18th Jun 1837 at
Pentrich, parents George Johnson and Mary. I did a search for other children of this couple and found Elizabeth and Thomas Johnson christened at Pentrich on 10th Jun 1820, the very same day and place that Robert Tomlinson was christened, strongly supporting that as the correct one for ‘my’ Robert.

George and Mary Johnson had a further batch of children christened at Pentrich on 18th Jun 1837 - James(1823), Emma(1825), George(1827) and Isaac(1829).

Isaac and Emma would be good matches for Robert's visitors in 1861 and 1881. It's also striking  the similarity in names between George and Mary Johnson’s children and the names Robert gave to his own children.

One theory I have is that the Mary Tomlinson, mother of Robert, is also Mary Johnson, the wife of George. I found a marriage at Duffield on the 19th September 1817 for George Johnson and Mary Tomlinson, but Duffield seems not that close to Pentrich. At various censuses (Golden Valley), George gave his birthplace as Heage and Mary as Pentrich.

I was wondering what people with local knowledge thought of this theory and what other evidence might be available to back it up. I would like to know the name of Robert's father. In order to become a blacksmith, Robert would have had to serve an apprenticeship; does anyone know if any apprenticeship records survive? Also, what effects on Robert's history might the Pentrich Revolution of 1817 have had?

A lot of questions, but any pointers would be very welcome. Many thanks for reading.
Rob
KEIR, KERR, McRobert, Macadam, Wallace in Cumberland.
TOMLINSON, BEARDSHALL in Yorkshire & Derbyshire.

Offline spendlove

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Re: Robert Tomlinson 1814 of Butterley - update
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 13 December 15 19:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Do think you are on the right track.  Emma Dean age 55 (1826)  in the 1881 census.
She is on the 1851 Ilkeston as Emma Johnson born 1826 Heage - Servant

There is a marriage on Freebmd Edward Dean = Emma Johnson Sept Q 1853 Basford

On the 1861 Census Selston Nottinghamshire, she gives her birth place as Codnor Park, there are
a number of children including Emma Dean aged 5 months born Selston.

Likewise Isaac Johnson born abt 1830 Butterley Park.  In  1851 he is living Ironville Derbyshire with George Johnson & Mary. 

It is important to note that George Johnson gives his place of Birth as Heage Derbyshire, and it was
quite normal for residents of Heage to marry at Duffield Derbyshire, indeed many Heage were also
Bpt at Duffield.

Spendlove
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Spendlove, Strutt in London & Middlesex.

Offline Dizzifish

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Re: Robert Tomlinson 1814 of Butterley - update
« Reply #2 on: Monday 14 December 15 16:02 GMT (UK) »
Hello...  :)

To follow on from Spendlove's observations, these may help in determining how the family fits together and where to look next.

Marriage at Hucknall Torkard, Nottinghamshire.
18th July 1853 - after banns - officiating  minister: Curtis Jackson.
Edward DEAN, full age, bachelor, F.W.K., abode Hucknall Torkard.
Father = Thomas Dean, F.W.K.
Emma JOHNSON, full age, spinster, abode Hucknall Torkard.
Father = George Johnson, Labourer.
Both signed.
Witnesses: George Clarke & Hannah Clarke.
 ~ ~ ~ ~

No baptisms showing for Edward & Emma Dean's children at Selston or elsewhere on the Nottinghamshire baptism index.

Baptisms at Ironville, Derbyshire.    

DEAN Mary Ann    - Edward & Emma - abode Stone Row - occupation, Pudler - baptism 4 Mar 1855 - born 26 Nov 1854
DEAN Sarah - Edward & Emma - abode Stone Row - occupation, Pudler - baptism 7 Dec 1856 - born 24 Aug 1856   
DEAN Eliza Ann - Edward & Emma  - abode Stone Row - occupation, Pudler - baptism 2 Jan 1859 - born 5 Nov 1858

Burials at Ironville, Derbyshire.
DEAN Edward - abode Ironville   - 28 Aug 1889 - aged 64
DEAN Emma - abode Jacksdale -   3 Jan 1904 - aged 43
DEAN Emma - abode Jacksdale -   1 Feb 1905 - aged 80

JOHNSON Mary - abode  Golden Valley -   3 Mar 1862 - aged 69
JOHNSON George - abode Golden Valley - 24 Nov 1874 - aged 78

The above George & Mary appear to be in Golden Valley, Codnor Park in 1861 = Piece 2431/ Folio 73 /Page 14

Offline Rob T

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Re: Robert Tomlinson 1814 of Butterley - update
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 15 December 15 01:54 GMT (UK) »
Thank you very much Spendlove and Dizzifish for looking at my problem and giving your comments.

I was looking at the Derbyshire parish map (undated) on sheffieldindexers.com which shows several parishes covering the area, including Pentrich, Heage, Belper and Duffield. I was thinking that parishes might have been split up in later days as the population grew, and that Heage might originally have been within Duffield. Perhaps it was that fewer questions were asked in Duffield?

The marriage Dizzifish found fits very well with Emma's father being George Johnson, Labourer. The only slight problem is Edward Dean's occupation (F.K.W.) - in 1851 he was a lodger at Jacksdale Row, Selston with his occupation being Forge Man, and at later censuses he was variously a puddler and ironworks lab. Otherwise, it seems a perfect fit.

The baptisms at Ironville were also interesting. Those for Sarah and Eliza Dean matched later census information, but I had no record of Mary Ann. Sadly, I found a death record on freebmd for Mary Ann Dean in Q4 1855 Basford. From census info, Edward and Emma had another daur in 1864 whom they named Mary.

The other thing that I learned was that Emma's daur, Emma, was unmarried when she died in 1904. I was thinking she might have been the Emma Dean who married James Brown in Q4 1881. That doesn't affect my logic, though, which has the two Emma Deans visiting Robert Tomlinson in Yorkshire in 1881, with them both missing from Edward Dean's residence. It's that fact that establishes the family link.

What I would like to show is that, at the 10th June 1820 baptisms at Pentrich, the Mary Tomlinson, mother of Robert Tomlinson is also the Mary Johnson, mother of Elizabeth and Thomas.

I searched for possible marriages in the area for George Johnson and any Mary, and the only one that I found that would fit all the criteria was the one between George Johnson and Mary Tomlinson at Duffield on the 19th September 1817. No father’s names or ages were given; the register shows only that they were bachelor and spinster respectively, both 'of this parish'.

NOTE: There is another, younger couple called George and Mary Johnson in the area, who also had children christened at Pentrich. I believe their marriage was the one that took place at Duffield on the 27th August 1832, between George Johnson and Mary Holmes.

Mary Johnson's age of 69 from the burial record would give a birth year of about 1793, but I've found baptisms for three different Mary Tomlinsons.
1) Mary Ann Tomlinson, born 29 Jun 1793, RIPLEY-PENTRICH-NC,RIPLEY,father Isaac Tomlinson.
2) Mary Tomlinson, bap 19 Nov 1799, ALFRETON, George Tomlinson and Sarah.
3) Mary Tomlinson, bap 16 Jun 1793, DUFFIELD, Thomas Tomlinson and Mary.

I slightly favour the first one, as Mary gave her place of birth as Pentrich on various censuses, and circumstantial evidence that Mary named one of her children Isaac Johnson. Also, Robert Tomlinson gave the name Isaac Tomlinson as his father's name at one of his 3 weddings, and may have been thinking of his grandfather. He also gave Isaac's occupation as fishmonger, but that may well be a 'red herring'.

Thank you once again. Rob
KEIR, KERR, McRobert, Macadam, Wallace in Cumberland.
TOMLINSON, BEARDSHALL in Yorkshire & Derbyshire.


Offline spendlove

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Re: Robert Tomlinson 1814 of Butterley - update
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 15 December 15 12:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Can answer question about Parish.  Heage was a chapelry of Duffield church.  The Bpts  registers at Heage commenced 1819, prior to this Bpt would have taken place at Duffield.  Marriage registers start  1847 - again prior to this would have taken place at Duffield.  As to questions not being asked at Duffield, this is just a story which someone started on the internet.  In your case why would questions need to be asked they were both single.  The fact that Emma Johnson appears to have
had a child prior to her marriage would not affect her marriage.

Agree there is a problem as to occupation, prior to marriage 1851 census Edward Dean is still employed in the iron trade.  Have you found him in 1841 Census, only one I can find is apprentice
cabinet maker!  Could be the record is incorrect or transcribed incorrectly.

Spendlove
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Dizzifish

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Re: Robert Tomlinson 1814 of Butterley - update
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 15 December 15 22:29 GMT (UK) »
Hello Rob,

Not what you are really hoping for and may be of no use at all, but thought I would mention it, as you gave one of Robert Tomlinson's sons birthplace as Blacker Hill, Yorkshire, which is very similar to that of one of the sons of Joseph & Elizabeth Peach (nee' Johnson).

The 1851 census which has George & Mary Johnson and their sons Thomas & Isaac - that census page also has their son in law Joseph Peach and two Peach grandchildren, George & Ann who have their birthplace as Milton, Yorkshire.

1851 = Piece 2125 /Folio 389 /Page 24 - Codnor Park Extra Parochial, Basford, Nottinghamshire

1851 - Elizabeth Peach and three of the children are here = Piece 2126 /Folio 179 / Page 11 - Cotmanhay and Shipley, Ilkeston, Derbyshire.


FREEREG = Marriage at Shirland, Derbyshire - 31 July 1838
Joseph PEACH, bachelor, of Shirland, Labourer.
Father = James Peach
Elizabeth JOHNSON, spinster, of Shirland, Servant.
father = George JOHNSON, Labourer.


Baptisms at Riddings, Derbyshire - parents: Joseph & Elizabeth PEACH
               
Ann Peach - born 11 Jun 1840 - baptism 14 Dec 1845
George Peach - born 6 May 1842 - baptism 14 Dec 1845   
Mary Peach - born 9 Mar 1844 - baptism 14 Dec 1845   
Sarah Peach - born 18 Oct 1845 - baptism 14 Dec 1845    
~ ~ ~

The Peach family are together again in 1861.
1861 = Piece 2431 / Folio 23 / Page 20 - Alfreton Road, Codnor and Loscoe, Basford, Nottinghamshire

The interesting thing is: their son George has his place of birth as Milton, Yorkshire in 1851 & 1861 Black Hill, Yorkshire.

As we have his birthdate, I think this is his birth registration.

Births Jun 1842  -  Peach  George   -  Ecclesfield -  22 179

Maybe a coincidence, but Isn't Ecclesfield registration district the area that Robert Tomlinson's son Thomas was registered ? I see on the 1851 Thomas Tomlinson has his birthplace as Worsboro... which is where the Peach family are in 1841 - Piece 1323 /Book 3 /Folio  9 /Page 10 - Blacker Hill, Darfield, Ecclesfield, Yorkshire.

Offline Rob T

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Re: Robert Tomlinson 1814 of Butterley - update
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 16 December 15 02:12 GMT (UK) »
Thank you once again Spendlove and Dizzifish. Your help is much appreciated.

The marriage of George Johnson and Mary Tomlinson at Duffield now makes more sense to me, given the information about Heage and Duffield parishes. That means both parties would be classed as 'of this parish' even if they were living in Heage.

Sorry, my comment about fewer questions being asked in Duffield was a bit 'tongue in cheek'. I do remember reading a generalisation that couples sometimes chose to marry in neighbouring parishes where the priest was reputed to be lenient. I think this was mainly in the context of a couple under 21 wanting to marry without parental consent, however.

I was thinking along the lines that George and Mary might have wanted to marry somewhere out of sight of their neighbours, if Mary already had a son, and possibly that they might already have been living as man and wife.

The information Dizzifish discovered about the Peach family was very interesting, especially the details of the marriage at Shirland. Elizabeth Johnson was christened at Pentrich on 10th June 1820 with her brother Thomas and my 2nd great grandfather Robert Tomlinson. Elizabeth and her husband Joseph Peach were living in Worsbro in 1841, with a daughter Ann aged 1 who was born in Milton.

Milton and Blacker Hill are different areas of Hoyland, although originally Blacker Hill came under Worsborough. The villages of Elsecar and Jump are also very close to Hoyland.

When civil registration began in 1837, the Ecclesfield registration district covered a large area of south and west Yorkshire, including Hoyland, Wombwell, Worsborough and Barnsley. Strangely, in 1838, the village of Ecclesfield was transferred to the newly created Wortley district so, after that date the Ecclesfield registration district didn’t include the village of Ecclesfield at all. In 1850, the Ecclesfield district was split up with much of it going to the newly created Barnsley district.

I haven’t been able to find a birth registration for Ann Peach, although I did find one for Ann Peech in Q2 1840 Ecclesfield, which would match. George Peach’s birth was registered in the Ecclesfield district in Q3 1842, while Mary Peach’s birth was registered in Belper in Q1 1844 and Sarah Peach’s birth was registered in Basford in Q4 1845. This shows that the family moved back from Hoyland to Derbyshire at some time between Q3 1842 and Q1 1844.

What leads me to think that the christening of Robert Tomlinson at Pentrich on 10th June 1820 is mine is through the association with George and Mary Johnson's family. In 1861, Isaac Johnson was staying with Robert and was described as a 'relative'.

In 1881, Isaac's sister Emma (married name Dean) was with Robert, but only as a 'visitor' i.e. no family relationship given. By showing that Emma married Edward Dean, had a daur Emma, and both of them were absent from home at the 1881 census, supports these being Robert's visitors. Christening information, and also now the marriage details of Emma and Edward at Hucknall, shows Emma Dean to be Isaac Johnson's sister, and hence also a 'relative' of Robert's.

Thirdly, there is Elizabeth who, after marrying Joseph Peach, lived near Robert in the Hoyland district for some years before moving back to Derbyshire.

Although Isaac, Emma, and Elizabeth are only known to be relatives of Robert, the simplest solution seems to me to be that Robert’s mother, Mary Tomlinson, married George Johnson after Robert’s birth, and had Robert Tomlinson as well as Elizabeth and Thomas Johnson christened together.

It is possible that Mary Tomlinson and Mary Johnson are two different people, but related in some way. However, in that case, I would have to find another bride, also named Mary, for George, and either this other Mary or George would have to be related to Mary Tomlinson.

I think that's the nub of the problem. I do hope it makes sense - it is getting late!

Rob
KEIR, KERR, McRobert, Macadam, Wallace in Cumberland.
TOMLINSON, BEARDSHALL in Yorkshire & Derbyshire.

Offline Rob T

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Re: Robert Tomlinson 1814 of Butterley - update
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 29 November 20 21:19 GMT (UK) »
In a previous post on this topic, I suggested I favoured the Mary Ann Tomlinson born 29 Jun 1793, father Isaac Tomlinson, as the mother of my Robert Tomlinson who was bapt at Pentrich on the 10th Jun 1820.

As anticipated, the records show that Robert was the illegit son of Mary Tomlinson of Butterley Park.

I followed up on Isaac Tomlinson who was buried at Pentrich in Jan 1838, at the age of 99. Supporting information shows that the informant of his death was his grand-daughter Elizabeth Johnson. This would be the Elizabeth Johnson who married Joseph Peach later that year at Shirland.

I've attached a pdf showing how the various pieces of evidence I've collected relate to each other. Taking all this into account, I'm now satisfied that Mary Ann Tomlinson born 1793 is my 3xgreat grandmother, and that Isaac Tomlinson, born abt 1740, is my 4xgreat grandfather.

Many thanks for your support in unravelling this puzzle.

Of course, that only opens up other questions!
Rob
KEIR, KERR, McRobert, Macadam, Wallace in Cumberland.
TOMLINSON, BEARDSHALL in Yorkshire & Derbyshire.