Author Topic: John William Frank Ramsay Sladen marriage to Ellen Mary Keane domestic servant  (Read 2610 times)

Offline sladen keane

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John William Frank Ramsay Sladen marriage to Ellen Mary Keane domestic servant
« on: Wednesday 30 December 15 13:17 GMT (UK) »
My current interest is in John William Frank Ramsay Sladen and his wife Ellen Mary Keane

His background, as I understand it, was an aristocratic/military family originating in Wales and Kent and active in British India in the late 1700s and through 1800s. He was either born in India or Pakistan.

There was a "scandal"?? in the family, resulting in my branch - a not at all aristocratic branch of the Sladens.

I am guessing the scandal was that he married someone beneath him - Ellen Mary Keane

They were married in Perth, Scotland in 1884

Ellen's occupation on their marriage certificate is domestic servant. John was at Perth Barracks, occupation soldier,

I'd love to find out if she served the Sladen family in India and came over to Britain with John, or if she met John in Britain, Scotland specifically.

I haven't verified yet, but John might have come to Britain in 1881 with his regiment and might have been at Clarence Barracks in Portsmouth that year.

I would love any hints or tips how to go about pinning down when and where John was born (india?? 1850s??). I think Ellen might have been born in Tralee, Ireland (before 1864). I have a feeling that is going to be difficult to verify. I'd like to know how to find out how she ended up in Perthshire.

I have found a lot of snippets regarding the Sladen family, but as I haven't subscribed to a paid-site yet (other than Scotland's People PAYG) I can't verify much, so anyone related, I'd love to hear your story, and hints and tips for a newbie.
Sladen - Perth and Glasgow, Scotland
Sladen - British India - Pakistan
Keane - Perth and Glasgow, Scotland
Keane - Tralee, Ireland
Finnegan - Glasgow

Offline josey

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Re: John William Frank Ramsay Sladen marriage to Ellen Mary Keane domestic servant
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 30 December 15 14:12 GMT (UK) »
I found a military record for John Willam Ramsay Sladen born Peshawar, Bengal aged 17 yr 1 mo on enlistment 18 Aug 1875. He married E m Keane 3 Nov 1884. His next of kin was brother Henry. He had a 4th class then obtained 3rd class education certificate on 26 Apr 1884 - does this indicate an aristocratic background?

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Josey
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline ev

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Re: John William Frank Ramsay Sladen marriage to Ellen Mary Keane domestic servant
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 30 December 15 14:26 GMT (UK) »
Hi ,

There is an Ellen Neary(Mary ?) Keane age 24 born Tralee Kerry Ireland in Hampshire in 1881 , occupation cook.



ev
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Offline josey

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Re: John William Frank Ramsay Sladen marriage to Ellen Mary Keane domestic servant
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 30 December 15 14:33 GMT (UK) »
And in 1881 Private J W R Sladen is at Portsmouth Barracks [Hampshire] RG11/1151/50/14..... according to his military service he left India on 20 Feb 1891.

Probate in 1910 for a Lt Col John Ramsay Frederick Sladen [?relative] died Fyzabad 28 Feb 1910 granted to widow Ada effects £1452 9s 7d - not a fortune.

There are 2 trees on ancestry with the same photograph of him.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON


Offline josey

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Re: John William Frank Ramsay Sladen marriage to Ellen Mary Keane domestic servant
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 30 December 15 14:50 GMT (UK) »
Pension records on ancestry show a John R Sladen who was a Major General in the RA. Retired 1872 died 10 Feb 1907. Children John Ramsay Fredk b 1860, Ethel b 1864, Alice Amelia b 1867. David Ramsay b 1872, Thomas Oliver Ramsay b 1872, Mary Dorothea b 1875. NO brother Henry for NOK as in the military record I found. Wondering if John William Ramsay Sladen b 1858 was an illegitimate son of this John snr? And THIS is the scandal? He is a private in his regiment not an officer as would be expected of a Maj Gen's son.

I suggest the Peshawar baptism might hold the key - try FIBIS....
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline ev

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Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline josey

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Re: John William Frank Ramsay Sladen marriage to Ellen Mary Keane domestic servant
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 30 December 15 15:15 GMT (UK) »
Well found, ev. How annoying.....

FindMyPast have the baptism of the 1860 son of the [at that time] Captain John Ramsay Sladen referred to in reply #4 - mother Maria Ann.

Who did John William Frank Ramsay Sladen name as his father on his marriage to Ellen in 1884?

I have a feeling 2 families are being mixed up here....    :-\
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline ev

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Re: John William Frank Ramsay Sladen marriage to Ellen Mary Keane domestic servant
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 30 December 15 15:42 GMT (UK) »
Found this online -
Quote
466. John William Ramsey15 SLADEN (387.William14, 299.Ramsey13, 218.John12, 172.John11, 142.John10, 101.Benjamin9, 82.Benjamin8, 64.Thomas7, 37.William6, 14.Robert5, 5.Thomas4, 3.Robert3, 2.John2, 1.Henry1) was born 19 June 1858. He was the son of William Dare SLADEN and Anne Arethusa RYVES. He married Ellen KEANE 19 June 1884. She was born in Tralee, Kerry, Ireland, the daughter of Patrick KEANE.
ISSUE:
528.   m   I.William Dare SLADEN, born 22 February 1887.
529.   m   ii.Charles Henry Colebrooke SLADEN, born 25 October 1895, died 18 April 1918 in Givenchy.
+ 530.   m   iii.John Ramsey Saint Barbe SLADEN, born 10 October 1898.
http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/sladden/3/

Don't know how accurate any of that is  :-\

The 1884 marriage certificate should have both sets of parents named.



ev


Added -
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1769061/SLADEN,%20CHARLES%20HENRY%20COLEBROOKE
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline MonicaL

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Re: John William Frank Ramsay Sladen marriage to Ellen Mary Keane domestic servant
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 30 December 15 19:35 GMT (UK) »
John Sladen a warehouse porter in 1891?

John R Sladen 32 warehouse porter, b. British Subject, East Indies
Ellen M Sladen 32 b. Ireland
William D Sladen 4 b. Perth
Gladys L Sladen 2 b. Perth

Address: 54 Scott St, Glasgow/ St Rollox

Another birth that year https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTF3-97M

Given the confusion, sladen keane, hard to be more definitive without the marriage details from Perth that you mention. Scottish marriage certs, sure you know, include full details on names of father and mother for bride and groom.

Monica  :)
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