Author Topic: Mackenzie: Born in Knockroy, URRAY  (Read 978 times)

Offline Rena

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Mackenzie: Born in Knockroy, URRAY
« on: Monday 01 February 16 01:13 GMT (UK) »
I've done some more homework regarding my known ancestor Donald M'kenzie of Clyde IronWorks, since my last query about a smithy in Braan and now I'm back  ???

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=729367.0

The OPR that I uploaded (see link) showed baby Donald's father was another Donald.  I know from an 1841 Old Monkland census and an obituary that Donald (a blacksmith) born 1775-77 and his wife Ann had sons John, Kenneth and Duncan. Those three siblings eventually became management in the metal and coal industries.  I also know from a grave headstone that his father-in-law was (another) Donald Mackenzie, clerk at Clyde Iron Works married to a Janet Cameron (I have not discovered any information whatsoever about the latter two).

To my way of thinking there is a glaring omission in the names of the siblings.  Three older generations carried the name "Donald" yet the blacksmith doesn't appear to have named a child Donald after himself, his father or his father-in-law (unless Duncan is a replace name for one Donald).

My homework was to find further possible siblings born in Old Monkland.  I found, then lost sight of, a Jean Mkenzie working as a nurse in Edinburgh.  I also found an Alexander and a Donald in the 1851 and further following census, neither of whom lived locally.  Would an engineer pay for an apprenticeship for a son to be a coach painter, which was the occupation of the Donald M'kenzie born in Old Monkland that I found.

I think the Alex and Donald that I found may have been relatdf to each other because their parents names were the same.  Their father being Donald M'kenzie blacksmith (so far so good) but their mother was stated as being an Agnes M'kenzie (hmm, not so good), where I was hoping for an Ann M'kenzie.

Has anyone any thoughts on the above?

+++

Due to the above quandary, I need to check the possibilities regarding one of the other Donald M'Ks born 1775-1777 in Urray.     There are parents John Mackenzie (no occupation given) and Anne Robertson who either roamed about a bit and had babies baptised in another church where the vicar didn't enter maiden surnames, or who planned long gaps between children.

Their known children all born in URRAY are:

Jannet:  born/bapt April 1765 in "Belloan"
Alex:     born/bapt  July 1770 in "Knockroy"
Donald: born/bapt July 1775 in "Belloan"
John:  born/bapt June 1782 (noted as, 'posthumous'), born in Laigh Fairburn

Presumably "Belloan" is Balloan/Ballone.  Can anyone point me in the direction of "Knockroy" in Urray as I can't find mention of it.

Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Online Skoosh

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Re: Mackenzie: Born in Knockroy, URRAY
« Reply #1 on: Monday 27 July 20 15:29 BST (UK) »
Rena, been a while but the Fairburn website has been greatly improved!  ;D

https://www.fairburn-estate.co.uk/

Bests,
Skoosh.


Offline Rena

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Re: Mackenzie: Born in Knockroy, URRAY
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 00:48 BST (UK) »
Rena, been a while but the Fairburn website has been greatly improved!  ;D

https://www.fairburn-estate.co.uk/

Bests,
Skoosh.

It's very warming to see your name again Skoosh - hope all is well with you up there.

Thanks very much for the link, and as you surmised, I hadn't visited that site for quite a while and there was some new information but nothing that I could link to my family.

It's peculiar that he only stays in one place for a couple of years, which leans me towards somebody who took short term rental leases on farms.  I also think he could have been a layman preacher.  I think that the only religion that doesn't require a university education is the episcopal church

Always in your debt
Rena
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke


Offline Forfarian

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Re: Mackenzie: Born in Knockroy, URRAY
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 08:29 BST (UK) »
I think that the only religion that doesn't require a university education is the episcopal church
Perhaps that is true now of ordained clergymen, but I would be surprised if it was ever necessary for a lay preacher to be university-educated, and certainly not in the 18th or early 19th century.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Rena

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Re: Mackenzie: Born in Knockroy, URRAY
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 28 July 20 13:06 BST (UK) »
I think that the only religion that doesn't require a university education is the episcopal church
Perhaps that is true now of ordained clergymen, but I would be surprised if it was ever necessary for a lay preacher to be university-educated, and certainly not in the 18th or early 19th century.

Hi Forfarian,
Thank you for your input but from your response it seems that I haven't coherently explained my train of thoughts about the man John M'kenzie (b 1700s - d 1700s), who I believe could be an ancestor.   From the occupation of this mysterious Black Isle man's known son Donald (an employed blacksmith in Lanarkshire),  I do not think John had a university education and didn't seem to be of any consequence on the Isle, otherwise I believe I would have found something written about him.   This is why I thought he probably worked the land.  His offspring and the offspring's children were devout churchgoers in the Scottish lowlands according to newspaper articles; which, to my mind, suggests kirk attendance on Sunday was an enjoyment passed down by an older generation.   

It's a long time since I spoke with the Highland archivists and since that time another Mackenzie researcher has mentioned that whilst he was perusing documentation in the archives he saw mention of a church layman in Urray - it may be that I can claim him as my own - or maybe not.

Once again, I appreciate you stopping by with your thoughts.
Rena
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Online Skoosh

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Re: Mackenzie: Born in Knockroy, URRAY
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 30 July 20 14:59 BST (UK) »
@ Rena, anent Knockroy, some of my Grant's were in Bridgepark, Aultgowrie, Urray, so had a search for Bridgepark & in ScotlandsPlaces 1848-1872 came across a reference to Cnockanroe/Cnocanarve, this name applies to a farmhouse immediately to the west of Bridgepark house. A thatched house of one storey. Prop' K.S.Mackenzie Esq' Brahan castle.
 Also a Stronachroe south of Muirton House, several small farms there.
 Cnocanroe would be pronounced something like crochanroy? Anglicised=Knockroy.

Bests,
Skoosh.

Offline Rena

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Re: Mackenzie: Born in Knockroy, URRAY
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 30 July 20 20:06 BST (UK) »
@ Rena, anent Knockroy, some of my Grant's were in Bridgepark, Aultgowrie, Urray, so had a search for Bridgepark & in ScotlandsPlaces 1848-1872 came across a reference to Cnockanroe/Cnocanarve, this name applies to a farmhouse immediately to the west of Bridgepark house. A thatched house of one storey. Prop' K.S.Mackenzie Esq' Brahan castle.
 Also a Stronachroe south of Muirton House, several small farms there.
 Cnocanroe would be pronounced something like crochanroy? Anglicised=Knockroy.

Bests,
Skoosh.

If we weren't separated by a few hundred miles Skoosh, you'd be assaulted with a bear hug, because I'm so thrilled by the news of your sleuthing.

The other week, because the Archives are closed,  I decided to take a gamble and see if I had inherited a bit of the Brahan Seer.

I relaxed and summoning up a commanding voice, I said "John Mackenzie - what was your occupatuion?"

Quick as a flash my left hand made a fist and thumped me in the chest, then grabbed my throat/volicebox.

Am I descended from a murderer?  ::) :o ;D

Once again, I'm really grateful for your time and efforts.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Online Skoosh

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Re: Mackenzie: Born in Knockroy, URRAY
« Reply #7 on: Friday 31 July 20 09:34 BST (UK) »
Well Rena, Balloan is 15 minutes from there & now a guest-house. Bridgepark is a modern name & won't be older than the bridge. To think that we both came out of the same wee patch of grun!  ;D
 There were only two dozen Episcopalian families in the parish so narrows the field somewhat.
 This website on the Glen Orrin Munro's is worth a read,

https://www.themunrosofglenorrin.com

 The 1881 census has an Alex Munro, labourer, a boarder with my g'gt gramps family in Aultgowrie, he also appears in the 1901 census as a visitor from Muir of Ord with the family of my gt gramps George Grant, Ward street, in the Townhead, Glasgow. ;D
 Also there is a Donald Fraser, 18, boarder, a postie so probably also from Aultgowrie & coming to grips with the tenements & fish suppers!
 Always had a notion to climb Cnoc Udais (crochoodish) which hangs over the village but never made it!

Slainte'
Skoosh.

Offline Rena

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Re: Mackenzie: Born in Knockroy, URRAY
« Reply #8 on: Friday 31 July 20 15:56 BST (UK) »
Hello again Skoosh,
I've now visited the website and first things first - I'm going to swap my map of the area with their better one  :D    I'm surprised the Munro descendants found their ancesters, as there doesn't seem to be any continuity of family given names.  Every line of all nationalities that I've got has a naming pattern unlike the Munros.

I did look on early Lanarkshire census for any likely connection to R&C, e.g. same type of work, same names, born in same county, etc. but nothing jumped out at me. Except for son John M'K had a housekeeper named Ann Cameron, was she sister to grandmother Janet Cameron - I'll never know because no record of Ann C's death prior to 1855. I did chase up a few death certs that had slightly different parental names (e.g. parents Donald & Agnes instead of Donald and Ann)

lol,as for being from the same piece of ground;  our old ancesters much have liked each other or you might not have been inclined to help me out.(what goes round, comes around)  :D  We've got something else in common, in that your ancesters knew earlier generations of the Munros back in the auld days. I have something similar;  When I was researching my Yorkshire mother's maternal Hanovarian grandfather b1853, I had a feeling that I should swap information with an online chap who was researching totally different Hanovarian names.  It turned out that I'd been in the same school, same year, as his older half sister back in the early 1950s and my 1750s Hanovarian Saxon was a cousin of his 1750s Saxon. The common denominator was the Hanovarians met because they were travelling musicians playing on the same circuit (probably fairgrounds and other shindigs)

From what I've read my M'kenzie Chiefs could be likened to the cuckoo chick that elbows all other chicks out of the nest. The proof seems to be that the clan started out in the west and spread eastwards.  This means I'm probably destined to look westward for earlier M'kenzie generations.   As I've been unlucky with my Ferguson/Brown ancesters in Thornhill, Perthshire I'm in for a rough ride   Although, I've read somewhere that Stirling archives have some unreleased Perthshire bmd records.

Phoebe the sun is beckoning me to go outside, so I'll say "thank you" once again and wish you a happy weekend.

Rena

Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke