How can you tell if your circa 1800 ancestor is Jewish

[element4]

This is a long shot, but I can't find baptism records for my great, great grandfather, Thomas Greenwood, born 1819 in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire.   His father was called Henry Greenwood, whose job was listed as a Carder on his son Thomas' wedding certificate.  This wedding certificate lists Thomas as a "Marine Store Keeper", if I am reading the handwriting correctly.

He is living in the Cathedral area of Manchester, with his wife Bridget Ward who was born in Ireland, and Bridget's younger relatives.

Thomas and Bridget married on 29th June 1846 at St Mary, St Denys and St George, Manchester, which as far as I can tell was the ordinary Anglican parish church?  As their older son Hiram was baptised at this church on 25th October 1846, Bridget seems to have been five months pregnant at the time of the marriage, but I can't see why the Catholic church would refuse to marry them on those grounds, and being Irish born Bridget must have been a Catholic, and Hiram's children were brought up as Catholics, he married an Irish born woman too.

If it is the same person, he seems to be on the 1871 census, age 52 living with Anne Greenwood, age 40, as a lodger in the house of Elizabeth Hamilton, age 60, a shopkeeper, in this same area of central Manchester, where Thomas' job is listed as "Card Dealer" (I am sure I am reading that handwriting correctly, and have no idea what it means).  Thomas and Bridget and their sons Hiram and James W vanish after the 1851 census, and I can't find any of them on the 1861 census at all.  Hiram re-appears on the 1871 census living in Hulme, Salford, with his Irish born wife Mary Ann and two small daughters, Rebecca and Mary Ellen.

I remember an older relative a long time ago saying that the family name was changed from Gruenwald to Greenwood, and that they were Jewish.  I had decided that this was probably not true, as Hebden Bridge is where the Greenwoods originated with Wyomarus in the twelfth century, and Greenwood is a very common name in West Yorkshire, but now I can't trace any baptism for 1819 for Thomas Greenwood in Hebden Bridge with father's name Henry, even though the records seem to be good.  And I thought the waves of Ashkenazi Jewish immigration were later in the nineteenth century?  I was expecting to find something later showing that they had changed their name from Gruenwald to Greenwood.

Both Thomas and Hiram Greenwood seem to have lived mostly in central Manchester and Salford, with the only Hebden Bridge connection being Thomas' place of birth given on censuses and his marriage certificate.

If Thomas Greenwood and his father Henry Greenwood were Jewish and had changed their name from Gruenwald, would this name change have been official, or would they have been under pressure to hide this fact?  If Thomas was not born in Hebden Bridge, as he says on censuses and his marriage certificate, why would he need to say that?

Very odd that I can't find Thomas' birth or baptism in the records.

[Ruskie]

Gruenwald to Greenwood sounds possible.

There might also be a clue in the choice of the name Hiram.

Perhaps the family story has some truth to it, maybe started due to the name Hiram.

All just speculation.

Do you have any birth, marriage or death certificates for the family as surely that would indicate if they were Jewish. Of course it is possible that the Jewish family members were in earlier generations.

Have you looked for siblings for Thomas? You have his father as Henry - do you know his mother's name? The Jewish family may be from her side of the family. You would expect the name Hiram to have come from somewhere but it is possible he was named after a friend rather than a relative.

[rosie99]

with the only Hebden Bridge connection being Thomas' place of birth given on censuses and his marriage certificate.

Marriage certificates don't give place of birth just the abode at time of marriage.  Have you found him in 1841

[Ruskie]

The IGI has a baptism for a Hiram Greenwood in Stansfield, Heptonstall with father Henry and mother Fanny. Maybe one of yours?

Surprisingly there are other events for other Hiram Greenwoods, so it might be worth you having a look.

There are a couple of Thomas Greenwoods with father Henry, but not necessarily in Hebden Bridge. You might need to widen the search.

[element4]

The IGI has a baptism for a Hiram Greenwood in Stansfield, Heptonstall with father Henry and mother Fanny. Maybe one of yours?

Surprisingly there are other events for other Hiram Greenwoods, so it might be worth you having a look.

There are a couple of Thomas Greenwoods with father Henry, but not necessarily in Hebden Bridge. You might need to widen the search.

My great grandfather Hiram Greenwood was baptised on 25th October 1846 in Manchester, his father was Thomas and his mother Bridget. 

It is my great great grandfather Thomas Greenwood who I can't find a baptism for, and his father was Henry.

Thomas does give his place of birth as Hebden Bridge on the 1851 and and 1871 censuses, though Rosie99 is correct that place of birth is not shown on the marriage certificate. That might cover nearby places like Heptonstall, but wouldn't be far away.

[element4]

with the only Hebden Bridge connection being Thomas' place of birth given on censuses and his marriage certificate.

Marriage certificates don't give place of birth just the abode at time of marriage.  Have you found him in 1841

You are right, I just checked the document and the marriage certificate doesn't give the place of birth.  Only where they are living at the time of the marriage, 30 Angel Street, Manchester.

But he does give his place of birth as Hebden Bridge on the 1851 census.  (And on the 1871 census if it is the same person).

[element4]

The IGI has a baptism for a Hiram Greenwood in Stansfield, Heptonstall with father Henry and mother Fanny. Maybe one of yours?

I see what you mean, he might have been Thomas' brother, or some other relative who my great grandfather Hiram was named after?

So there is a possibility that this Henry and Fanny Greenwood in Heptonstall are Thomas' parents too, or somehow family members?

[heywood]

There is this family in Manchester - Henry and Fanny with several children

1841 576 book 3 folio 17 pg 28

All born in County but looks very probable

[heywood]

Children baptised to Henry and Fanny Greenwood - here